Tomo MPH

ReForest

Michael Peterson status
Oct 7, 2020
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@ReForest was there any footage of KS surfing that tomo at bells?
There was a short clip of him doing a cutback on that board that looked pretty basic for KS. Such an odd tail design, but when you think about the wing, then the curved area to the point, then into a V4 tail... it turn and grip perfectly! :unsure:

KS will articulate his thoughts well on that one, assuming someone queries him about it.
 

Retropete

Phil Edwards status
Jan 20, 2006
5,961
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Sunny Coast Qld Australia
swallow or winged swallow. Anything more elaborate than that, makes me wonder: what the heck are you trying to achieve?

*speaking of Firewires, my He2 is delaminating after 3 months already, with very minimal use and after being stored indoors
Take it back to where you bought it from and show them. They have been replacing the boards with the rusty/reddish discolouration on them for a while now. If you have one like that take it back to the shop and they will replace the board. Shhhh...tell everyone!
Mate of mine has bought 2 discoloured ones cheap and then emailed Firewire with pics and they gave him new boards both times.
 

McHatin

Nep status
Apr 11, 2010
854
314
63
Take it back to where you bought it from and show them. They have been replacing the boards with the rusty/reddish discolouration on them for a while now. If you have one like that take it back to the shop and they will replace the board. Shhhh...tell everyone!
Mate of mine has bought 2 discoloured onesies cheap and then emailed Firewire with pics and they gave him new boards both times.
I did and they are working with Firewire but its not as straight forward as getting a direct replacement immediately.

I am wondering if production on this recent batch of FWs post-COVID factory shutdowns, were rushed and quality control suffered
 
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ReForest

Michael Peterson status
Oct 7, 2020
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I’ve been looking closely at the tail design and I’m thinking it has the same properties of his double bat tail (Scifi and Cymatic). If water adheres to curves and there is a break above the front fins, that will cause the water to break and give the tail a pivot point. Then he has this round curve to another point, then into a double diamond tail for grip. I think the theory is the water breaks at the first wing and allows the board to pivot, but still has a ton of grip because of the two points at the outer tip of the tail

.IMG_9308.jpgIMG_9323.jpgIMG_9309.jpg
 

Retropete

Phil Edwards status
Jan 20, 2006
5,961
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Sunny Coast Qld Australia
I’ve been looking closely at the tail design and I’m thinking it has the same properties of his double bat tail (Scifi and Cymatic). If water adheres to curves and there is a break above the front fins, that will cause the water to break and give the tail a pivot point. Then he has this round curve to another point, then into a double diamond tail for grip. I think the theory is the water breaks at the first wing and allows the board to pivot, but still has a ton of grip because of the two points at the outer tip of the tail

.View attachment 128180View attachment 128181View attachment 128182
Got the fins side of it to try out.
IMG_20220420_172133_HDR.jpg
Though it will be in my Lib tech Lost rocket redux. Got a couple of good waves using the Webber fronts and gxq (sidebites for longboards mostly) as quad rears as didn't have any larger FCS quad rears at the time. Got the 3D fins which are mediums now as per pic above.
Felt freakishly fast but a tad too loose with the gxq's. Didn't stay out longer because it was like national bald surfers day or something and I was surrounded by KS look-a-likes. So I found something better to do with my day rather than engage in close quarters paddle battles with the aggressive, long weekend horde.
 
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twinzerfan

Michael Peterson status
Oct 26, 2006
2,886
1,683
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Floriduh
@ReForest

as a famous shaper once said, there’s only 3 tails - round, square, swallow.

the water does not follow the tail that tight. Once it releases off the first wing, all the rest does is reduce the width of the tail to allow the surfer to get it on rail/submerge it in turns.

hence all references to Speeddialers.

all that marketing/design BS is window dressing
 

ReForest

Michael Peterson status
Oct 7, 2020
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@Retropete SICK! Now you are making me want to try that setup. Ill give it a go this weekend. Cant surf the rest of the week as the wife works and im on kid duty!

@twinzerfan Yes - but after the surfer gets "it on rail/submerge it in turns" the tail design will dictate if it slides out, grips, pivots, etc. I think once the water releases off the first wing, you can pivot the tail, but the points on the tip claw or grip the face of the wave, and the double diamond tail provide hold. I dont think its all marketing BS.

Also, you forgot diamond tail.
 

griffinsurfboard

Duke status
Oct 31, 2004
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I’ve been looking closely at the tail design and I’m thinking it has the same properties of his double bat tail (Scifi and Cymatic). If water adheres to curves and there is a break above the front fins, that will cause the water to break and give the tail a pivot point. Then he has this round curve to another point, then into a double diamond tail for grip. I think the theory is the water breaks at the first wing and allows the board to pivot, but still has a ton of grip because of the two points at the outer tip of the tail

.View attachment 128180View attachment 128181View attachment 128182
If you want to "Struggle" then get this board and fin set up
 

twinzerfan

Michael Peterson status
Oct 26, 2006
2,886
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Floriduh
Also, you forgot diamond tail.
not my words, was Rusty or Stretch. Can’t remember now. and some would argue that a diamond tail is a round tail, or square.

either way, water releases off corners, it doesn’t stick to them. Therefore more wings equals more release, not more hold.

double diamond is a swallow tail. Pavel told me so…
 
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twinzerfan

Michael Peterson status
Oct 26, 2006
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To follow up on that with design concepts, all of those corners will release water, allowing the board to redirect faster. It does nothing to increase hold.

corners and wings break the outline, curves smooth the outline and create smooth turning.

youre going to get much more results with changes to overall outline, rocker, foil, and fins. Tails are icing on the larger cake.
 

ReForest

Michael Peterson status
Oct 7, 2020
3,071
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To follow up on that with design concepts, all of those corners will release water, allowing the board to redirect faster. It does nothing to increase hold.

corners and wings break the outline, curves smooth the outline and create smooth turning.

youre going to get much more results with changes to overall outline, rocker, foil, and fins. Tails are icing on the larger cake.
Respectfully, in a very basic sense, I think changing direction or redirecting is mainly a board size issue (length and thickness). Sort of like how taking a sharp turn in a car is easier/harder in a smaller/larger vehicle, respectively. I don’t think it has anything to do with water being released off the corners.

As far as tails go, I think tails are huge on a design and not just icing on the cake at all. I think of tail shapes like wings or tails on an aircraft. They dictate almost the entire maneuverability of the aircraft. Just like tail shapes dictate the maneuverability of a surfboard. Pintails are known for more hold on larger waves. Wide tails for more planing speed. Swallows for grip. Diamonds for more pivot. But the tail shape is a huge aspect of a surfboard design.

I have had several boards with the same rocker, width, length, etc, and the only change was the tail shape and they rode totally different. The hydroshort as example, I had a roundtail and a squash tail and the roundtail had more hold and better pivot, but the squash went better in smaller waves and felt better. Same thing with the OB1/Cymatic as a diamond tail or battail. The result – more pivot on the diamond tail and more grip on the battail.