probably why you see those more on traditional style fishes and the straight cuts on shortboard hybrids. more release on a straight cut?
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Tomo MPH
- Thread starter VaB
- Start date
?
This doesn't make sense to me. Clawing the water just doesn't happen. Try clawing water.
Twinzerfan's words are perfectly fine, it's the concept that is getting lost on some. If water is traveling past an edge, it will follow more if the edge is rounded and hold onto the rail/tail. If the edge is sharp, then water will release more easily.
This is why Griff and Maurice Cole like sharp edges. Try sanding the hard edge in the tail down so that it's rounded. Do this with your board that has the sharpest edges.
The reason why a swallow tail holds in better than a square is the triangle in the center that has been removed: the tail has less planing area and will sit lower in the water. Rusty made a video on surfline talking about this.
Take any board and change the tail shape. Keep the everything exactly the same, but only change the tail shape from the 12 inch mark downward. They will all perform different. Round, Diamond, Swallow and Squash.
I dont see how anyone would object to that.
Now, put a wing on any of those tails (Round, Diamond, Swallow and Squash) and it will also change the feeling of the board. I've experienced a board skipping or sliding out a bit on a backside bottom turn because of a wing. It didnt have the same hold as the same model without a wing. I presume it was because of the break in the water flow.
So again... i don't see how anyone can argue that tail shape or tail design is just icing on the cake? I think its extremely relevent to a design and subtle changes have an impact.
I dont see how anyone would object to that.
Now, put a wing on any of those tails (Round, Diamond, Swallow and Squash) and it will also change the feeling of the board. I've experienced a board skipping or sliding out a bit on a backside bottom turn because of a wing. It didnt have the same hold as the same model without a wing. I presume it was because of the break in the water flow.
So again... i don't see how anyone can argue that tail shape or tail design is just icing on the cake? I think its extremely relevent to a design and subtle changes have an impact.
But again how much of that is in yer head and you convinced yer self ya don't like it or ya do. Yer confort zone
I hate square and squash tails and well never surf a board with either tail but like diamond or bat tails
fug this last 12” chit. This is what I understand @twinzerfan to be talking about by “changing the tail”.
In this specific case - Do you think you would notice very much?That is definitely what twinzer is talking about!
Okay, now I have wet hands. What does that prove?
But seriously, a perfect disk would spin far more easily in water than a disk with points (like bat tails), so in that way, I imagine Tomo engineering genius in bat tail turning/pivot design, although I'm clueless why that added friction would be a good thing. Works with the overall design I suppose.
Maybe with that "Round Pin" attachment because its the longest of them all. The image on the left shows the attachment going on after the leash plug. So thats maybe 2 inches at most. The image on the right looks pretty far back from the 3rd box, so if anything these attachment would cause more drag and probably just slow the board down.
I remember Dane Reynolds cutting off the tail block of one of his board which later became the Neckbeard (i think).
In order to change the feel of the board I think you would at least need to change 4 inches up to feel anything significant.
Sorry. The reason I showed that photo of Dane was to enforce the idea that tail shapes do matter and do change the feel of the board. Which is why Dane wanted to remove the last 4 inches. Tomo did a blog post about this (which is were I got the photo). Lots of good info in his old blog posts!
dantomo.blogspot.com
Posted by Tomo at 2:01 AM |
Traditional logic tells us that a wide tail or 'pod' will provide a board with a high planing speed potential however will be slidely, poor control and pop out. Sound about right?
I came across this new model Dane Reynolds ingeniously engineered with a hand saw. I like Dane, he is doing the most amazing futuristic surfing on the planet and he is taking upon himself to redesign his own equipment with no tools other than his own intuition.
The only function that the last 4inches " of tail of a traditional (dinosaur) shortboard is provide drag. see http://marinelayerproductions.com for evidence of a clear improvement in a dated design, with simple reduction of un-neccesary surface area.
Good work Dane!!
Tomo Surfboards
dantomo.blogspot.com
Posted by Tomo at 2:01 AM |
Traditional logic tells us that a wide tail or 'pod' will provide a board with a high planing speed potential however will be slidely, poor control and pop out. Sound about right?
I came across this new model Dane Reynolds ingeniously engineered with a hand saw. I like Dane, he is doing the most amazing futuristic surfing on the planet and he is taking upon himself to redesign his own equipment with no tools other than his own intuition.
The only function that the last 4inches " of tail of a traditional (dinosaur) shortboard is provide drag. see http://marinelayerproductions.com for evidence of a clear improvement in a dated design, with simple reduction of un-neccesary surface area.
Good work Dane!!
Marketing BS is Not your FreindSorry. The reason I showed that photo of Dane was to enforce the idea that tail shapes do matter and do change the feel of the board. Which is why Dane wanted to remove the last 4 inches. Tomo did a blog post about this (which is were I got the photo). Lots of good info in his old blog posts!
Tomo Surfboards
Posted by Tomo at 2:01 AM |
Traditional logic tells us that a wide tail or 'pod' will provide a board with a high planing speed potential however will be slidely, poor control and pop out. Sound about right?
I came across this new model Dane Reynolds ingeniously engineered with a hand saw. I like Dane, he is doing the most amazing futuristic surfing on the planet and he is taking upon himself to redesign his own equipment with no tools other than his own intuition.
The only function that the last 4inches " of tail of a traditional (dinosaur) shortboard is provide drag. see http://marinelayerproductions.com for evidence of a clear improvement in a dated design, with simple reduction of un-neccesary surface area.
Good work Dane!!
Did he change plug placements after moving the tail forward 4" ?
you’re kinda proving my point.
changing the last 12“ of the board is changing the OUTLINE. Change the last 1” like in sdsrfr’s post not so much.
but, yes it does change, hence my allusion to icing on a cake. Do you want vanilla or butter cream? It’s still chocolate cake, just a different finish.
ghostshaper brings up a great point about edges too. I can’t tell you how many shapers (and good surfers) would pick ip the newly sanded boards and first thing they did was feel up the last 2’ of rails to check the edge. Alot would “click” there fingernails on it… any wobble or dull sections would have to be fixed. Good times lol
and all this time I thought it was to make the glasser and sanders job easier
I think Tomo is doing what he wants to, and is expressing himself through his design. Nothing wrong with that. He’s a gifted surfer and has talent riding his boards. So they obviously work.
we also have to admit that he did shake up the design community whether you agree with his ideas or not.
now, how much of what he or other designers claim is actually true is another thing.
As far as a smooth disc sliding through the water better than a bunch of teeth., that may be true if you turned completely flat. But since most of us want to bury the tail and spray our bros, the board is banked, moving in an elliptical plane so the bottom and edge is engaged together. Maybe diagonally is a better way to explain it.
its all good, and talking design is fun!
Yeah it’s great having shaper’s on the forum and learning about design. Appreciate!
Good to see twinzerfan posting again! I want one of your incut twinzer fishies!
Speaking of incuts.......those are pretty controversial in board design, right?
What are you looking to achieve with your incuts @twinzerfan? Tighter turning radius?
What are you looking to achieve with your incuts @twinzerfan? Tighter turning radius?