Tomo MPH

[rowjimmytour]

Respectfully, in a very basic sense, I think changing direction or redirecting is mainly a board size issue (length and thickness). Sort of like how taking a sharp turn in a car is easier/harder in a smaller/larger vehicle, respectively. I don’t think it has anything to do with water being released off the corners.

As far as tails go, I think tails are huge on a design and not just icing on the cake at all. I think of tail shapes like wings or tails on an aircraft. They dictate almost the entire maneuverability of the aircraft. Just like tail shapes dictate the maneuverability of a surfboard. Pintails are known for more hold on larger waves. Wide tails for more planing speed. Swallows for grip. Diamonds for more pivot. But the tail shape is a huge aspect of a surfboard design.

I have had several boards with the same rocker, width, length, etc, and the only change was the tail shape and they rode totally different. The hydroshort as example, I had a roundtail and a squash tail and the roundtail had more hold and better pivot, but the squash went better in smaller waves and felt better. Same thing with the OB1/Cymatic as a diamond tail or battail. The result – more pivot on the diamond tail and more grip on the battail.

Tails are 100% preference and if its not in your flavor it goes straight to head and you convince yourself ya hate it or itz broken Its all about feeling and if you ever skated vert "cement" and checked out other skaters gear see how different set up: lose/tight trucks, size wheels, board, truck etc, no risers etc...all about feeling and what makes ya comfortable putting yer arse on line inside bowl.

 

[ReForest]

“Surfboard design is like sex: Everyone knows the basics; it’s the details that separate the good efforts from the bad.” - ReForest

 

[twinzerfan]

dude, if you think a board‘s ability to change direction is “mostly” about length, you’re missing a lot of information.

to use your analogy, a Smart Car ought to out corner an F1 car. but we all know that is not going to happen.

again, your anology with the wings releasing - why do you think they put wings on a fish? It’s to reduce the width of the tail, and RELEASE pressure under the board, release water from the otherwise straight outline so it can turn. Same thing on high speed power boats. Those slots on the hull release water, they don’t grab on to it or it would slow it down.

but what do I know. Only shaped 1000s of them….

 

[twinzerfan]

also, your Hydroshort with the square tail was faster because it was releasing water off the straight outline into the tails corners.

the round tail was holding onto water as it flowed throu the curve.


you basically said what I’m trying to explain to you

corners release

curves stick

 

[griffinsurfboard]

 

[griffinsurfboard]

The wing or the sting become the tailblock of the surfboard

 

[ReForest]

dude, if you think a board‘s ability to change direction is “mostly” about length, you’re missing a lot of information.

to use your analogy, a Smart Car ought to out corner an F1 car. but we all know that is not going to happen.

again, your anology with the wings releasing - why do you think they put wings on a fish? It’s to reduce the width of the tail, and RELEASE pressure under the board, release water from the otherwise straight outline so it can turn. Same thing on high speed power boats. Those slots on the hull release water, they don’t grab on to it or it would slow it down.

but what do I know. Only shaped 1000s of them….

You may know what your talking about, but might not be so good with words. I still don't follow you. But if you're a shaper, I guess that means you know what you're talking about.

You said tail shape is "icing on the larger cake", but then you go on and tell me how my squash tail hydroshort is faster because of its tail design. lol.

I think we can agree that tail design matters, and the wing breaks up the water flow and allows the board to pivot.

 

[griffinsurfboard]

and the wing breaks up the water flow and allows the board to pivot.

Wings on a 5'4 are kinda stupid ;-)

 

[twinzerfan]

@ReForest

ok, let’s go back. I said that the double diamond tail is basically a swallow tail, and the wings release water helping the board turn.

I quoted someone who has built countless boards that there’s only a handful of tail shapes. Maybe more than 3, but basically round, square, swallow. If you want to add pin and diamond to that i can see that.

the tail is a tiny part of the equation. The width of the tail on the other hand is very important.

so, if you put your round tail Hydroshort on top of the squash, I would imagine that you would see how the outline stays straight on the square and curve pulls the round tail in.

the OUTLINE changes BECAUSE of the tail shape. so, yes tails matter but the outline is more important.

for example a wide round tail will plane faster than a narrow square tail. The tail isn’t making a difference in that case, but the wide outline is.

does that make sense?

edit: fwiw I don’t make boards anymore but did for a long time with a lot of amazing people.

 

[estreet]

Wings on a 5'4 are kinda stupid ;-)

But sexy, and since when did sexy ever need to be smart.

 

[ReForest]

Wings on a 5'4 are kinda stupid ;-)

Tell that to Matt Parker. His Twinsman seems to be selling like hot cakes.

 

[ReForest]

@ReForest

ok, let’s go back. I said that the double diamond tail is basically a swallow tail, and the wings release water helping the board turn.

I quoted someone who has built countless boards that there’s only a handful of tail shapes. Maybe more than 3, but basically round, square, swallow. If you want to add pin and diamond to that i can see that.

the tail is a tiny part of the equation. The width of the tail on the other hand is very important.

so, if you put your round tail Hydroshort on top of the squash, I would imagine that you would see how the outline stays straight on the square and curve pulls the round tail in.

the OUTLINE changes BECAUSE of the tail shape. so, yes tails matter but the outline is more important.

for example a wide round tail will plane faster than a narrow square tail. The tail isn’t making a difference in that case, but the wide outline is.

does that make sense?

edit: fwiw I don’t make boards anymore but did for a long time with a lot of amazing people.

I think the width of the tail is an element of the overall "tail design" and would fall within the description of "tail design".

 

[twinzerfan]

I think the width of the tail is an element of the overall "tail design" and would fall within the description of "tail design".

depends on how you define “tail”

if you’re talking about the actual end of the board, that’s typically called the tail block/tip on a pin tail.

in terms of design speak, “tail width “ is measured 12” up from the tail block.

if you have a wide tail block, you normally have a wide tail width. What Tomo does, or used to do was keep the tail width “normal “ but have a wide tail block. That resulted in a straight outline that generated speed easily, but is generally harder to turn.

so…. he decreased the overall length, and adjusted the rocker to compensate for the stiff outline.

so you see, the actual tail block is only a small part of the overall design. Although it is what most people see as they appear to be magical.

and just so you know, Daniel and I shared a mentor back in 2006-2010ish. I had several conversations with him over emails for a year(s) and tried to get him a shaping trip to the UK back then. unfortunately, it didn’t happen but it was good fun talking design and industry stuff…

 

[twinzerfan]

Another thing to add is that Tomo used to always name his boards after fighter jets due to tail shapes like you mentioned. All the corners were for controlled release…. Or whatever he said back then.

however, if you put a stealth fighter tail on a Warthog, it’s not going to work.

it takes a lot more than a fancy tail design to make the plane/board work.

 

[griffinsurfboard]

His Twinsman seems to be selling like hot cakes.

This defines Function and Design with the salt water damaged surfer

 

[estreet]

if you put a stealth fighter tail on a Warthog, it’s not going to work.

So not just icing on the cake.

 

[Goodfish]

Can't wait to order a 5'8 quad-diamond tail Lightsaber in MorfinTECH by Reforest Designs!

 

[twinzerfan]

So not just icing on the cake.

my point is it wouldn’t turn the Warthog into a stealth fighter by simply changing the tail.

 

[estreet]

my point is it wouldn’t turn the Warthog into a stealth fighter by simply changing the tail.

Swapping the tails of these aircraft would drastically affect both.

Perhaps you’re better at board design than you are with words, as ReForest suggested earlier.

 

[SD_Dan]

If you change the tail, make the ratio of wing length to width equal to the golden ratio, set the total plane Length to 5’8”, and then set the tail number to GMM2 you will have a magic plane…or planing hull for that matter.