The takeback of Hawaiian lands?

Beerbelly

Michael Peterson status
May 14, 2010
2,188
289
83
Just relaying facts. Don’t have no dog in this fight. Got 5 acres of primo real estate with a beautiful 5 bedroom multi story house a couple miles in either direction of great year round waves.
 

racer1

Tom Curren status
Apr 16, 2014
12,922
14,982
113
Honolulu, Hawaii
My only problem is being told I have no soul, by someone I've never met, because of the color of my skin.
You are misinterpreting the definition of the word. Ha is breath and a'ole is no. We're not saying no soul, we're saying no breath. Hawaiians used to touch foreheads and inhale simultaneously to recognize each other. The colonizers/missionaries thought it was sexual and didn't do it (and told Hawaiians to stop doing it). So haole means no sharing of breath (and also don't do that sharing of breath thing). Nobody is saying you don't have a soul.
 

Beerbelly

Michael Peterson status
May 14, 2010
2,188
289
83
You are misinterpreting the definition of the word. Ha is breath and a'ole is no. We're not saying no soul, we're saying no breath. Hawaiians used to touch foreheads and inhale simultaneously to recognize each other. The colonizers/missionaries thought it was sexual and didn't do it (and told Hawaiians to stop doing it). So haole means no sharing of breath (and also don't do that sharing of breath thing). Nobody is saying you don't have a soul.
Fuck em Racer. Your intentions are obvious but you’re preaching to a completely non porous blob.
 

everysurfer

Phil Edwards status
Sep 9, 2013
6,713
1,811
113
Santa Barbara County
You are misinterpreting the definition of the word. Ha is breath and a'ole is no. We're not saying no soul, we're saying no breath. Hawaiians used to touch foreheads and inhale simultaneously to recognize each other. The colonizers/missionaries thought it was sexual and didn't do it (and told Hawaiians to stop doing it). So haole means no sharing of breath (and also don't do that sharing of breath thing). Nobody is saying you don't have a soul.
What do i know. I just read stuff on the internet

"The honi is a Polynesian greeting in which two people greet each other by pressing noses and inhaling at the same time. This is a very honorific as this represents the exchange of ha--the breath of life, and mana--spiritual power between two people. This act and the concepts behind it are very unusual to western audiences and care should be taken to explain the spirituality and sacredness of this simple act of greeting."
So I have no breath of life instead?
You're making this so hard for a poor white boy to keep up.
 

racer1

Tom Curren status
Apr 16, 2014
12,922
14,982
113
Honolulu, Hawaii
Nobody is saying you have or don't have anything.You're projecting too much spiritualness on this.

It'd be like people who have babies but then refuse to have them vaccinated (and tell others to not get their babies vaccinated).

We'd call them Anti-Vaxxers.
 
Last edited:

everysurfer

Phil Edwards status
Sep 9, 2013
6,713
1,811
113
Santa Barbara County
Nobody is saying you have or don't have anything.You're projecting too much spiritualness on this.

It'd be like people who have babies but then refuse to have them vaccinated (and tell others to not get their babies vaccinated).

We'd call them Anti-Vaxxers.
You aren't a real deep thinker, are you. Other Hawaiians can tell you it means no life, or no spirit, or no soul. Onula can write about fücking haoles coming to Hawaii. ( that is how this thing started.) I can tell you that I as a white guy am offended. The whole western world is rioting about stopping racism.

And absolutely nothing is going to open your mind to see any perspective but your own.

I honestly feel bad for you. You are missing out on so much.

Unless you guys have any more to say about it, I'm done here. You just aren't ever going to figure it out.
 

the janitor

Tom Curren status
Mar 28, 2003
12,340
1,737
113
north of the bridge
Natives got fücked. U.S. govt should go back and honor every treaty they signed.

Why do you think that just because I'm offended by racist insults of any kind, that I would not realize injustice.

See, I would never argue with a Hawaiian who said his people got their land stolen at the point of a bayonet. I'd have no problem if they sued and won billions from the plantation owners.
My only problem is being told I have no soul, by someone I've never met, because of the color of my skin.

Don't let dogma get in the way of clear thinking.

that ^^^ seems at odds with the following

So here a thread starts about some Hawaiian who wants to take back Hawaii. That's some ignorant bullshit right there. What, you want a civil war? What's the difference between that guy and some southern cracker who wants to rehash the civil war, and fly a losing flag.
 
  • Love
Reactions: afoaf

everysurfer

Phil Edwards status
Sep 9, 2013
6,713
1,811
113
Santa Barbara County
that ^^^ seems at odds with the following
You miss the nuance.

Native Americans can sue in a court of law to recover what was stolen from them.

Hawaiians can do the same. More power to them.

What I have a problem with is some dumb ass with an AR and a pick up truck, thinking he is just going to throw every non native off the island. What about all the non natives who legally purchased land from a willing seller? Are you going to throw him off the island at the tip of a weapon? Are you going to chase out the US Navy all by yourself?

Back to the Native Americans. They have the rightg to enforce every treaty. But if they willingly sold land like Manhattan island; or if a settler came in and took over some empty prairie, then no, the Native Americans can't have that back.

And then you also have to accept that the winners keep the spoils of war. It might not be fair, but it is what it is.

And lastly, the guy with thed pickup truck bitching about white privilege. It's Chinese privilege, or Filipino, privilege, and some white privilege too.

If he really wants to fix his problem, then maybe the Hawaiians should just boycott all tourism. Quit working at hotels and restaurants. Quit giving outrigger rides. Quit giving surfing lessons.

Quit inviting tourists if you don't want them to come.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 000

jamesgang

Miki Dora status
Aug 9, 2006
3,979
1,062
113
Location Location
You aren't a real deep thinker, are you. Other Hawaiians can tell you it means no life, or no spirit, or no soul. Onula can write about fücking haoles coming to Hawaii. ( that is how this thing started.) I can tell you that I as a white guy am offended. The whole western world is rioting about stopping racism.

And absolutely nothing is going to open your mind to see any perspective but your own.

I honestly feel bad for you. You are missing out on so much.

Unless you guys have any more to say about it, I'm done here. You just aren't ever going to figure it out.
It's just a word. Nobody freaks out when somebody says, "hey you know that black dude Steve you work with?" or at least they shouldn't. Nobody should freak out about someone saying "Tom the haole guy who lives on the corner."

Now if you add the word "f_cking" as a prefix to either of those words, it's different. And it invokes more of Hawaii's racist, colonial, imperial past. A past where haoles ran everything big and did everything they could to stoke racial animosity because it made the workers less likely to strike. That's the context. racer1 already told you the etymology of the Hawaiian word. So given that it is just weird and ironic that a white guy who doesn't even live in Hawaii would get so eggy about it. But I have noticed that - some haoles HATE the idea that there is a word for them, a word that could possibly, maybe, even a little bit be used as a pejorative. Meanwhile they got ten stink words for everybody and never think twice about it.

Haole is not the n-word.
 

stringcheese

Miki Dora status
Jun 21, 2017
3,930
3,700
113
It also sounds kinda shltty to me when oneula or anyone else talks about "the outsiders" in such an us vs them way. Divisiveness sucks. These people are mostly scared, I thinkm That doesn't only go for Hawaiians, duh, a lot of groups do it.

This haole thing though, it's been explained. Let it goooo
 
  • Like
Reactions: racer1

PeterDj

Legend (inyourownmind)
Jul 11, 2018
467
340
63
The no breath / no soul thing is because caucasians didn't great each other by touching foreheads and inhaling together (how Hawaiians greeted each other), so Hawaiians said they didn't share breath not that they didn't have breath.

Haole isn't the big insult you think it is. I call my haole friend, "My haole friend" when describing them to other haole friends. My dad is haole and my Hawaiian family says, "your haole dad." It's really not a big deal.
Probably a good thing they didn't share breath otherwise they all would have ended up dead from disease like central americans.
 

PeterDj

Legend (inyourownmind)
Jul 11, 2018
467
340
63
Umm no . As usual you kinda of missed the point.
Grandkids inherit house. Sell on open market for $ 709,990. Local couple scrape up life savings and borrow an amount barely tenable based on local wages. Thendone guvktard from North Dakota who spends 20 hours of his life coding, is still a virgin and spends zero if his wages with local businesses swoops in and offers $200,000.00 above asking price.
He saw an Instagram post by a similar loser about how cool surfing was and decided he’s tired of being a virgin without friends.
Santa Cruz in a nutshell.
Almost, except Thendone guvtard is actually renting from asian oligarchs who made millions selling slave labor from their communes. Eventually, Thendone and his friends lose their jobs after they train their replacements who end up moving here using H1B visas sold to them by their philanthropic leaders promising a better life for all. However, the oligarchs are smart and price colluded to jack up real estate prices so now a single family home is filled with 3 families with 5 kids each. Traffic goes to sh!t, disease rains rampant, no can afford to buy anything, everyone is renting making ridiculous amounts of money to pay for a closet. Thendone and friends end up moving to Idaho and join a right wing militia, use whatever money they saved to buy bugout homes in Costa Rica and Panama for retirement. The cycle continues.
 

potato-nator

Phil Edwards status
Nov 10, 2015
6,066
1,283
113
Arduous indeed was rounding the Cape.
I think i got this from Michener/Hawaii but to do so they had to tack for 40days.
To the sailors among us: Can you imagine tacking for 40 days??
 
  • Like
Reactions: frontsidegrab

Beerbelly

Michael Peterson status
May 14, 2010
2,188
289
83
Probably a good thing they didn't share breath otherwise they all would have ended up dead from disease like central americans.
You mean that disease where America overthrows your government and installs one more to their liking?
 

oneula

Miki Dora status
Jun 3, 2004
4,363
2,711
113
$=root

and you all have the definition of "haole" wrong it doesn't mean "without breath"
it just means foreign to "here" not even human foreign, just foreign in general.

like kumu hina says Ha'ole didn't exist before the missionaries wrote it down wrong, it's pronounced haole in the verbal language not Ha'ole, Which is kind of like wishing someone happy new year "hau'oli" versus saying "haole" in pronounciaton.

Just like the chinese laborers whose names went from "Fong" to "Ah-Fong" or "Choy" to "Ah-Choy" when they got off the boat and the missionary had to write down their names for the records.

same problem
 
Last edited:

sussle

Rabbitt Bartholomew status
Oct 11, 2009
8,390
7,766
113
Yup! The (international sailors, not only haole's) wanted nookie and booze after there arduous crossing around The Horn. Tired and sunburnt, they were quarantined aboard there ships by the "local" humanitarian Caucausian contingent of Christian's who came to save the heathens of the Pacific. So now it was Portuguese, Spanish, Caucasoids, Dutch whatever sailors against the white christians. Coming ashore the sailors battled the local white & brown police officers, the white shop owners, and the white christians. And in the evening, they stormed the white christian church, trying to burn it to the ground after fueling themselves with the local grog made by the white owner of the local grog shop. And the local brownies, in an attempt to save the white christian church availed themselves, hurling upon the thatched roof trying to beat the flames down to save the white christian church ~ ✌
(Michener was long winded, descriptive)
Billy Mitchill, facing, holding the pole, Mervin Young, (HFD-retired) facing Billy.
PPK, top rt corner, about to fall through the thatched roof, onto foam pads)
1966. Makua Beach, West side of Oahu

,
Michener is long-winded, but his attention to detail seems to do justice to complex histories, particularly where cultures collide with socio-economic interests. it's a formula he works, but he does it so well. it's actually fascinating to hear from someone who was a part of it - thanks!
 

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
49,204
22,753
113
oneula has always been overly-generous in every possible regard

he can call me haole, beat me up, and throw me out of hawaii and I'd still thank him at the end of the day
 
  • Like
Reactions: One-Off and mundus

Subway

Administrator
Staff member
Dec 31, 2008
13,497
10,110
113
LBNY
yeah but you would have to isolate in your rented condo for 14 days first, without getting stoned to death by angry locals who moved to Hawaii 5 years ago ;) i kid I kid. I'm a much mellower subway right now as opposed to, um, about 20 minutes ago.

And i second Oneula's generous spirit, PPK of course, among many others. IN fact all of my trips to Hawaii have been blessed, whether it was the melancholy beauty of scattering my fathers ashes, with my family, at the top of the Waimea canyon in 2017, this past trip in 2019 with my late father in laws' husband (and wife and her sister of course) for a surprisingly positive experience. Craig and my wife's sister can sometimes go at each others throats lol. He's a fussy unadventurous log cabin republican, in his late 60's, and she's a strongly left leaning scientist at a major pharma company- they love each other, but they love arguing with each other even more- Kauai kept them both calm and well behaved. And holy smokes was the surf pumping pretty much every day that trip. Bonzer knows- That session at Why so slows will forever be etched in my mind. me, another visitor, a couple of long time transplant residents, plus sea bass and tati. Solid overhead and near flawless.

2015 i think was the year we were there at the same time as Tenover's family, and we had an epic time sharing adventures with his wonderful wife and daughters. Complete with Thanksgiving dinner at Black Pot. So many epic memories.