The Swedish Experiment

ghostshaper

Miki Dora status
Jan 22, 2005
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Will any population ever reach herd immunity?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-53315983
A Spanish study has cast doubt on the feasibility of herd immunity as a way of tackling the coronavirus pandemic.

The study of more than 60,000 people estimates that around just 5% of the Spanish population has developed antibodies, the medical journal the Lancet reported.

Herd immunity is achieved when enough people become immune to a virus to stop its spread.

Around 70% to 90% of a population needs to be immune to protect the uninfected.

The prevalence of Covid-19 antibodies was below 3% in coastal regions, but higher in areas of Spain with widespread outbreaks, the report said.
 
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PJ

Nep status
Jan 27, 2002
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This doctor from England is on YouTube a lot mostly reading scientific data on Covid - like the British health authority corrected the date for socio-economics and found that the darker your skin color more likely you were to get Covid which might very well point to Vitamin D production which is lower in darker skinned people. So I'm light as hell but I'm taking a D supplement for the duration just in case.

In this episode he's talking to a doctor from Sweden who says if you're over 60 with a co-morbidity or over 80 and have Covid they don't give you Oxygen, just a Morphine cocktail. They also discourage Oxygen at home at all - they say it's explosive and dangerous. The Swedish attitude from what I've read in this thread and other places seems to be "We're all Swedes" so are they sort of willing to take one for the team if they know they are towards the end of their life's rope anyway. And is this attitude part of their low cost of health care? The Pallative cocktail for Covid doesn't make a lot of sense to me but maybe there is something to be learned from them about extreme medical intervention in cases with a predictably bad outcome.

I know that most medical expenses come at end of life, like for my father who was stuck in a home with dementia for two years. He was forgetting some things but still sharp and driving then one day had low blood pressure, went in the hospital and lost that last little bit of brain function that was separating him from helplessness. He had high blood pressure which had damaged his brain over time and the shock of the low blood pressure then the hospital drugs slid him into unresponsiveness (and dementia but we didn't find that out until later). He became unconscious for weeks, I went every day for months, he was on a ventilator, etc etc. We kept thinking that of we got him awake he would be OK. We did get him awake but he wasn't OK - he would never be able to leave the nursing home.

At that point he wanted to die, he told me so a few times but not often because although vacant and intermittent as his mind was in many ways he never lost the human part of himself and was very considerate and tried not to burden us. There was nothing left for him but sitting in that wheelchair in the dayroom every day with the others, most of which were equally doomed. You could see it in their eyes, the mute acceptance. They were mostly around the same age and it was almost like a 3rd grade class had re-united to see each other through at the end. It was like they were in purgatory just waiting their turns. So the drill was to wait for a natural cause to come along which would kill him and then not treat it but we didn't know that until it started happening.

It was probably an intestinal cancer. He was losing blood and he would die. They gave him Morphine for the pain and we waited. I was there the night before - he was sitting in his chair but couldn't see me. It was almost like he was in Church, trying to speak to god, waiting for his turn. It happened the next night, we were all there with him, the nurses knew it was coming. I was holding his hand as he died.

So during the hurricane in Puerto Rico and now Covid with the nursing home deaths I was thinking of my father and how there are a lot of people in nursing homes who shouldn't really be alive, they don't have the capacity to stay alive on their own and may not even want to be alive but we have kept them alive because we can but it's not always the best thing and that maybe there's something we can learn from other countries about end of life.

 
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Boneroni

Tom Curren status
Mar 5, 2012
10,860
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Goleta
I'm currently in Sweden, (only 1/4 swede though) there is so much nonsense here that I thought I'd try to shed a little light.


Here goes.

Exposure.

Sweden reacted late, that was what they did wrong.
Sweden has a ski vacation in late February every year, yes you heard that right, schools and work let people off for a week off to go skiing/snowboarding.
The Italian Alps has been the hot spot for swedes the last few years, Danes, norwegians and Finns far less so.
that coincided with the Italy having a high amount of Covid 19 cases. So basically, there was a lot more exposure compared to the neighboring countries.

How it has been handled.

Sweden can't politicize things like this, because sweden has a People's Health Authority which is seperated from the government.
What they say, based entirely on science, is what the politics has to follow, not the other way around. it is rather unique, and kind of cool if you ask me.
Anders Tegnell , basically just doesn't fluff.
He isn't defensive and just says exactly how it is.

Predicting is never perfect, even in science, so he truthfully answers that in retrospect some things should have been done differently.

The decisions by the People's health authority were comprised of a lot of factors. 1 sweden has a low birthrate and children leave the house when they become of age. As opposed to Italy where several generations of family members live together.
Swede's generally do keep a social distance and much of the population outside the cities is spread out.
The swedish healthcare is managing this, it's at a higher rate, but it hasn't overwhelmed the healthcare system, this was the main reason for staying open and not locking down. Flatten the curve and avoid brunt of the storm.

As for the high death rates. This is for several reasons.
1 , they save testing for those that are in critical need to keep resources open. More have had corona without showing severe symptoms, they aren't in need of the same medical care. If sweden had testing, that would automatically lower the number of people dying per those infected.

2) Sweden counts all those who died with Covid-19 as deaths by covid-19. Because this can't be politicized, as it isn't the governments decision, facts are everything and no one can do a blame game. This is interesting, because a lot of countries with elected governments and officials that are in charge of this would have incentive to smudge the numbers. Basically, if you died of pnuemonia or anything else while being infected with Covid-19, it gets registered as Covid-19. Simple as that.

3) Swedish Old folks homes, in the 90's sweden tried to counter the loneliness that affected the elderly by increasing the size of the old folks home. Norway and Denmark have retirement homes with guests of 15-20, sweden (as a way to combat loneliness) has old folks homes of 70-90. This is where Anders Tegnell has mentioned regret, that sweden wasn't able to protect these people that were vulnerable during this pandemic. old folks homes with 4-5x more people than the neighboring countries drastically affected the death toll as they require 4-5x the resources (in terms of workers, etc)


In Summary, sweden reacted late and that was the mistake, since then they have handled it exceptionally well, by not politicizing it, using measures to make sure the rate stays lower and by keeping business open. Actually really glad to be here during this.

I have 38 surf days here this already although it's slowed up with the nicer weather... but here is a pic of me barrel dodging here :


View attachment 92306

this isn't a hollow wave, but it's long, up to 200 yards, and over pretty sharp rocks
Wow, great post. A perspective we seldom get to hear. Thanks.

Also, would love to see more pics of that wave....
 

llilibel03

Phil Edwards status
Jul 28, 2005
6,274
888
113
 

Bohter

Michael Peterson status
Mar 7, 2006
3,071
68
48
This doctor from England is on YouTube a lot mostly reading scientific data on Covid - like the British health authority corrected the date for socio-economics and found that the darker your skin color more likely you were to get Covid which might very well point to Vitamin D production which is lower in darker skinned people. So I'm light as hell but I'm taking a D supplement for the duration just in case.

In this episode he's talking to a doctor from Sweden who says if you're over 60 with a co-morbidity or over 80 and have Covid they don't give you Oxygen, just a Morphine cocktail. They also discourage Oxygen at home at all - they say it's explosive and dangerous. The Swedish attitude from what I've read in this thread and other places seems to be "We're all Swedes" so are they sort of willing to take one for the team if they know they are towards the end of their life's rope anyway. And is this attitude part of their low cost of health care? The Pallative cocktail for Covid doesn't make a lot of sense to me but maybe there is something to be learned from them about extreme medical intervention in cases with a predictably bad outcome.

I know that most medical expenses come at end of life, like for my father who was stuck in a home with dementia for two years. He was forgetting some things but still sharp and driving then one day had low blood pressure, went in the hospital and lost that last little bit of brain function that was separating him from helplessness. He had high blood pressure which had damaged his brain over time and the shock of the low blood pressure then the hospital drugs slid him into unresponsiveness (and dementia but we didn't find that out until later). He became unconscious for weeks, I went every day for months, he was on a ventilator, etc etc. We kept thinking that of we got him awake he would be OK. We did get him awake but he wasn't OK - he would never be able to leave the nursing home.

At that point he wanted to die, he told me so a few times but not often because although vacant and intermittent as his mind was in many ways he never lost the human part of himself and was very considerate and tried not to burden us. There was nothing left for him but sitting in that wheelchair in the dayroom every day with the others, most of which were equally doomed. You could see it in their eyes, the mute acceptance. They were mostly around the same age and it was almost like a 3rd grade class had re-united to see each other through at the end. It was like they were in purgatory just waiting their turns. So the drill was to wait for a natural cause to come along which would kill him and then not treat it but we didn't know that until it started happening.

It was probably an intestinal cancer. He was losing blood and he would die. They gave him Morphine for the pain and we waited. I was there the night before - he was sitting in his chair but couldn't see me. It was almost like he was in Church, trying to speak to god, waiting for his turn. It happened the next night, we were all there with him, the nurses knew it was coming. I was holding his hand as he died.

So during the hurricane in Puerto Rico and now Covid with the nursing home deaths I was thinking of my father and how there are a lot of people in nursing homes who shouldn't really be alive, they don't have the capacity to stay alive on their own and may not even want to be alive but we have kept them alive because we can but it's not always the best thing and that maybe there's something we can learn from other countries about end of life.

That's an interesting piece of info re Vitamin D production and dark skin.....
Suggests how important V - D is to our immune systems....
And possibly suggests why we have a "flu season" in the fall when we get less sun.
Check out the sinusoidal aspect of that in the chart I posted a few days ago on the pinned CV thread...
Cool beans...
 
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Leaverite

Phil Edwards status
Dec 19, 2017
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Just wait until the kiddies all go back to school this fall...Every neighborhood in the USA will have its fresh pile of carcasses each morning.
 

goingoutside

Legend (inyourownmind)
Mar 7, 2016
382
-1
18
" We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false. "

William Casey, CIA Director 1981


Their program is pretty much completed.

There is no "virus". This is all staged.

If you believe them...you have been duped....again, and in a big way I might add.

Sad to say.


....I am goingoutside now....ask yourself one question....why do you believe these people?...
 
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ghostshaper

Miki Dora status
Jan 22, 2005
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" We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false. "

William Casey, CIA Director 1981


Their program is pretty much completed.

There is no "virus". This is all staged.

If you believe them...you have been duped....again, and in a big way I might add.

Sad to say.


....I am goingoutside now....ask yourself one question....why do you believe these people?...
God finally gave someone I know the staged virus. She said she's on day 12 of no taste/smell. She had a splitting headache for 9 days and said her brain was foggy. Tested positive. Luckily didn't give it to her parents. All in God's plan.
 

goingoutside

Legend (inyourownmind)
Mar 7, 2016
382
-1
18
God finally gave someone I know the staged virus. She said she's on day 12 of no taste/smell. She had a splitting headache for 9 days and said her brain was foggy. Tested positive. Luckily didn't give it to her parents. All in God's plan.
So, you are going along with their "program"? All of it? Everything they tell you? Is that what you are saying?

Or do you disagree with anything they are telling you?

What about this guy?

Dr. Stanley "Human-in-Form" Plotkin, re: experiments on orphans/mentally retarded/prisoners - YouTube

Cause this is where they are going....



....I am goingoutside...no, not gonna go along with those guys....be very careful who you "go along" with....
 
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Duffy LaCoronilla

Duke status
Apr 27, 2016
16,876
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Your mom�s house
" We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false. "

William Casey, CIA Director 1981


Their program is pretty much completed.

There is no "virus". This is all staged.

If you believe them...you have been duped....again, and in a big way I might add.

Sad to say.


....I am goingoutside now....ask yourself one question....why do you believe these people?...
FBB12123-2E87-4A1F-ACA7-1C93AEB0A761.gif
 

casa_mugrienta

Duke status
Apr 13, 2008
27,304
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Petak Island
There is no "virus". This is all staged.

If you believe them...you have been duped....again, and in a big way I might add.
So what exactly is this mystery thing?

It's become my work life.

Coronavirus + PAPR all day everyday.

All I do nowdays is work with this "virus" that you say doesn't exist.

So if as you say there is no virus... what is it we're treating?

And most of all, can I dump the PAPR?
 
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oneworlded

Michael Peterson status
Jun 4, 2004
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chrisdixonreports.com
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