The perfect custom experience - restore faith thread

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
2,260
1,467
113
Regional Vic, Australia
Somewhere buried in these forum pages I posted that if ever I came out the other side of COVID with my job intact I would buy a local custom board. We did not reach the other side and despite being on a 20% COVID pay cut I decided to go ahead. This was back in June. I had spent the last 2 years surfing just 2 second hand Chilli boards and had got the new board itch.

The story started from before then - I had moved to regional Vic and I asked the local team rider if I could take a look at his board and he suggested I get a custom and recommended that particular model as a baseline design. I had some doubts about how well that would work out (although I did not voice them). He said that the boards were cut by machines and fine scaling of measurments possible which was reassuring.

A custom consultation was booked and I took in my old Chilli HPSB as a reference point. I explained that rail volume is really important to me - too thin and the board accidentally sinks rails and is difficult to use. Too chunky and I can't bury it in a hard driving turn. Shaper said that he could measure points at intervals along the rail and produce something similar. I said that is not necessary, I was not looking for a board that is exactly the same as what I got - after a different feeling which is the whole point of getting a new design. I suggested just measure the mid-point and I am sure that the rest of the rails would come within my comfort zone and that I did not want to detract from the original design.

So my Chilli was placed on the stands and examined - the Grom plus model - HPSB for small people. Shaper did the Maurice Cole trick of diagonally placing a long ruler across the rear of the hull and showed how it lay flat and remarked it was a very straight flow path. Long ruler on an example of the proposed local design showed that the model I was ordering had more tail rocker. The shaper also remarked that the rear rails of the Grom plus were quite tall and boxy - I emphatically said that I do like them like that. They do not cause the tail end to skip out with me and I like the way they can keep me going fast over the surface when I need that sort of "easy speed". I said that I was not necessarily requiring rails to be replicated along the full length and happy to keep the original design intent. Nevertheless the shaper used calipers (high precision tool) to take measurements at 3 points along the rear half. The points are where he puts 3 slices in the computer shape. They use AKU and although I had a self design which was not perfect but got the rail thickness right, it was in Shape3D, so could not be used as reference. Nose rocker and rails forward of mid point were not discussed, but the understanding was that I would be getting a board the same dimensions and volume, but with a "bit more performance" which I attributed to the extra tail rocker.

We went into the computer room because some customers like to see how the software looks on the screen and the shaper dug out from the archives an example of the model I had ordered. It was one he had put together for his son who was not too far away from my size I believe. This would be the starting point for my board he explained. Wait time would be 4 weeks - "is that ok? we are quite busy" he added "everyone is surfing". I ordered one of their standard simple coloured rail schemes. Shaper said that if the board is not exactly what is wanted then they can sometimes put it in the rack to sell, but the colour and size I was ordering could make that a little difficult. It is an indication that things don't always go right with custom.

4 weeks is alright with me, 6 would be my happiness limit. Former custom builder and all round expert Josh Dowling told me that 6 weeks is about as long as the new board itch excitement lasts in a customer before enthusiasm wanes and some of that new board experience is lost. Three weeks later I got a call, board was finished. Upon examining it in the shop I knew I was going to be happy with it, I could tell that the rail volume was right in my comfort zone and the tall boxy tail rails like the Chilli had been produced. I had faith in the basic design - rocker etc due to the local company having a reasonable amount of team riders, some of who were on that design.

Board is great, a bit more performance as discussed. Catches waves a bit better too. Dimensions on paper the same, but volume up a little - I did say that I was an aging weekend warrior who had only acquired my current surf schedule of up to 8 sessions a week since COVID, so maybe he thought I needed it. Magic board. I am surfing it all the time, needed no dialing in.
 

need 4 speed

Phil Edwards status
Nov 1, 2003
6,706
3,622
113
SoCal
I've been pretty happy with the latest custom boards with only one exception, primarily due to rail volume.Fit and finish has been exceptional(fins well placed) and glassing top notch. Good thread Mr. J :cheers:
 
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Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
2,260
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Regional Vic, Australia
I've been pretty happy with the latest custom boards with only one exception, primarily due to rail volume...
I think rail thickness is where a lot of board orders are going wrong. When surfers are very fussy about board volume I think that some of the time they are really chasing the correct rail thickness in combination with volume and not just simply the overall board volume.

We do not have a clear way of ordering a specific rail thickness. I was on a mission to get this bit right with my custom order and was fortunate that the shaper took an unexpectedly detailed approach to my order and it came out perfect for me. From a volume only comparison my existing Chilli reference point was 22.46L, the custom came in at 22.8L. Absolutely I can tell the 0.34L difference between the two boards, the difference in feeling is not big, but apparent when I took it for its first few surfs. However I can feel the extra volume only when paddling it or sitting on it. The ride was exactly in my performance range for push back Vs bury.

Some of the big manufacturers have been able to invest in a board order form on their website where board thickness, width etc can be adjusted, but no way of precisely requesting a rail thickness. There are several ways of getting this right e.g the approach taken with my order using precision calipers and the software. The established relationship with a shaper where I said "a tad thinner than last time" has also worked for me.

This is how I have done it with Shape3D. The default deck rail control point height z-axis is then added to the amount the tucked edge drops below stringer - shows as a negative z-axis number. It goes without saying that all HPSBs are concaved ;)

My mid-point HPSB preferred height is 1 3/8". It would be nice to be able to say 1 3/8" rails please or whatever method, but that is not available to us yet.

How do you do it N4S?
:cheers:

RailVolume.jpg
 
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johnson7

Nep status
Sep 29, 2016
686
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Could you tell us a little about what made you stocked with your orders?
With Jim's boards the craftsmanship is second to none, I've had 3 customs from him, and everyone blew my mind. Not only did they look incredible they surfed great too, I had an orange Wildcat that was probably my favorite. I had a Tyler a few years back too, but if I were gonna get a new custom log built big and slow, Phillips all day long.

Stretch, their the sh!t man! His boards are killer, ordering is always fun, art work is insane, and for me his boards kinda reinvigorated my surfing. Kinda a crazy, that's how I ended up here, haha.
 

need 4 speed

Phil Edwards status
Nov 1, 2003
6,706
3,622
113
SoCal
How do you do it N4S?
Eyeball it.... sort of
I watch a fair amount of Matt Kinoshita post on IG. In one of the posts he said something like
3/4" is his basic starting point for rail apex, regardless of desired rail volume and cuts deck to desired volume
I started using this as a starting point for my own boards and it works pretty well for me. Shape3d is super easy to use but challenging to master. For me translating a slice, into what comes off the machine being what was envisioned,was really hit and miss at first. I have gotten better and success is more frequent. I'm a builder of things, so it should be right in my wheelhouse but is still a little elusive at times.When you use shape3d you have to be cautious that you don't let the volume number you see influence the board foil too much. That was my biggest issue first few boards on my own. I have learned to let the dimension numbers drive my slice manipulation a lot more than the volume number in the box. Scrubbing takes away a lot of volume. I was told by my teacher that volume number you see in your file is the scrubbed volume, not sure if I agree(either way I'm no longer scared when the vol. is 44l) ymmv
Mailman.jpg
 
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need 4 speed

Phil Edwards status
Nov 1, 2003
6,706
3,622
113
SoCal
I might get in trouble for multiple post, but finished product(apparently I forgot to take some pics painted with fin boxes in but you get the idea) when the board was scrubbed I adjust the file as necessary. So it can take a couple cuts before I like the file. 2lb block cut eps w/ 6lb type L stringer Marko foam
Mailman1.jpgMailman2.jpgMailman3.jpgMailman4.jpg
 

oneula

Miki Dora status
Jun 3, 2004
4,366
2,729
113
Never disappointed with the following:

early 70's Customs
Harold Iggy - Surfboard Shaping Company (board lasted 30 years)

Early 90's Customs
Jim Turnbull-Ed Searfoss Country Surfboards (Board lasted 30 years)
Gary Linden(Mccully)
Jeff Bushman-Hawaii Surf and Sail Haleiwa
Randy (?)/Fred Pattachia Sr(daddy-o) - Hawaiian Surf
Barry Kanaiaupuni - BK Surf
George Ku - BK Surf/Hawaiian Surf Designs/RussK

2000's Customs
Greg Griffin - SunsetPoint Surfboards
Revolution Surf
George Gall - Plus One
Mike Daniels-Coil
Barry Snyder
Peter Poppler-Backyard Kauai

When ever I bought through big local name brand shops like T&C, HIC here I got screwed
best off the shelf boards where Parmenter Aleutian Juice from Hale Nalu in Waianae
 
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Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
2,260
1,467
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Regional Vic, Australia
With Jim's boards the craftsmanship is second to none, I've had 3 customs from him, and everyone blew my mind. Not only did they look incredible they surfed great too, I had an orange Wildcat that was probably my favorite. I had a Tyler a few years back too, but if I were gonna get a new custom log built big and slow, Phillips all day long.

Stretch, their the sh!t man! His boards are killer, ordering is always fun, art work is insane, and for me his boards kinda reinvigorated my surfing. Kinda a crazy, that's how I ended up here, haha.
Classic logs are in a different category to performance shortboards. They benefit from a bit of weight so can be made stronger with nice feature stringers so aesthetics important - a bit a like owning a nice piece of furniture :)

That's what we want when we get a new performance board - a feeling of being invigorated. Aesthetics less important and I used to think some were being too fussy about that, but I sort of get it now. Another part to my custom story is that I got a phone call 2 weeks after ordering enquiring about my choice of colour - I had chosen a simple standard 2 colour design off their catalogue - what could go wrong? Except that I had reversed the colours. The factory wanted to know if it was a mistake. So even the colours came out how I hoped.
 
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griffinsurfboard

Duke status
Oct 31, 2004
25,653
6,905
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Palm Coast , Florida
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I think rail thickness is where a lot of board orders are going wrong. When surfers are very fussy about board volume I think that some of the time they are really chasing the correct rail thickness in combination with volume and not just simply the overall board volume.

We do not have a clear way of ordering a specific rail thickness. I was on a mission to get this bit right with my custom order and was fortunate that the shaper took an unexpectedly detailed approach to my order and it came out perfect for me. From a volume only comparison my existing Chilli reference point was 22.46L, the custom came in at 22.8L. Absolutely I can tell the 0.34L difference between the two boards, the difference in feeling is not big, but apparent when I took it for its first few surfs. However I can feel the extra volume only when paddling it or sitting on it. The ride was exactly in my performance range for push back Vs bury.

Some of the big manufacturers have been able to invest in a board order form on their website where board thickness, width etc can be adjusted, but no way of precisely requesting a rail thickness. There are several ways of getting this right e.g the approach taken with my order using precision calipers and the software. The established relationship with a shaper where I said "a tad thinner than last time" has also worked for me.

This is how I have done it with Shape3D. The default deck rail control point height z-axis is then added to the amount the tucked edge drops below stringer - shows as a negative z-axis number. It goes without saying that all HPSBs are concaved ;)

My mid-point HPSB preferred height is 1 3/8". It would be nice to be able to say 1 3/8" rails please or whatever method, but that is not available to us yet.

How do you do it N4S?
:cheers:

View attachment 99090

Screen Shot 2017-06-05 at 6.03.37 PM_zpsck2pyupq.png
 

griffinsurfboard

Duke status
Oct 31, 2004
25,653
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Palm Coast , Florida
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Mr J

This is a mild version of this design

Notice how it pulls inward at the apex - this releases the suction of the lower curve

The angle from the Apex to the upper control point monitors the rails penetration , enabling a smaller - lower- apex for sensitivity , speed and precise control .

This was created when there was only 1 fin , a time when the design of the board was very important .

Put 3 on there and anything goes design wise ;-)
 
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Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
2,260
1,467
113
Regional Vic, Australia
Eyeball it.... sort of
I watch a fair amount of Matt Kinoshita post on IG. In one of the posts he said something like
3/4" is his basic starting point for rail apex, regardless of desired rail volume and cuts deck to desired volume
..
Ok, so you build in some extra rail volume into your file to allow adjusting by hand tools after the cut. I did this on my first board - but only in the tail section. My subsequent ones were designed to require no adjusting other than removing the cutting grooves and a little bit of fine finishing on the tuck. I have done 3 now, which makes me an expert ;)

Rail apex is important I have learned - there should be no waves up and down in the apex along the board. My boards are smaller and apex closer to 1/2"
 
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Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
2,260
1,467
113
Regional Vic, Australia
Mr J

This is a mild version of this design

Notice how it pulls inward at the apex - this releases the suction of the lower curve

The angle from the Apex to the upper control point monitors the rails penetration , enabling a smaller - lower- apex for sensitivity , speed and precise control .

This was created when there was only 1 fin , a time when the design of the board was very important .

Put 3 on there and anything goes design wise ;-)
Is this what you mean Greg? When the board is in trim water pulls away and creates suction - by keeping the deck control point low the amount of suction is reduced compared to a chunky rail.

I would say that when it comes to thrusters there is some truth in the anything goes, but only in the tail area - the tall boxy tail rails of the Chilli and my perfect custom (and my self builds) would be a problem on a single fin - board would spin out too easily. With 3 fins, it holds in just fine.

PS I think apexes that are very low in the mid section cause rails to catch easily even if they are reasonably chunky.

GriffinReducedRailSuction.png