*** The Official Wildland FIRE Thread ***

Aruka

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Feb 23, 2010
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Environmental groups are a jobs program for bugmen who drive expensive Teslas and late model 4Runners. This isn't 60 years ago - logging has changed a ton and lumber is viewed as a renewable resource. Pines and especially Sequioas grow crazy fast and thick tree stands have to be thinned to benefit the forest and deer.

My friend tried to log his hunting property and it was going to be $100k in permits and erosion mitigation before they even got started. That area burned a couple of years ago. It's a rainforest.
I think you are overestimating the average environmental non-profit salary. The few people I know who work for various non-profits all make much less than they would otherwise make in the private sector or working for the government. Like sub 50k. I have my own criticism's of non-profits in general but in this instance I am in favor of just about anything that is a countervailing force to rapacious capitalism.

Lumber is "renewable" but timber farms are not forests.

All of our rainforests are burning. Forestry management is one factor but climate change might ultimately be too big of a factor to overcome.
 

One-Off

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I think you are overestimating the average environmental non-profit salary. The few people I know who work for various non-profits all make much less than they would otherwise make in the private sector or working for the government. Like sub 50k. I have my own criticism's of non-profits in general but in this instance I am in favor of just about anything that is a countervailing force to rapacious capitalism.

Lumber is "renewable" but timber farms are not forests.

All of our rainforests are burning. Forestry management is one factor but climate change might ultimately be too big of a factor to overcome.
They also rely on an army of volunteers who work for free, purely for the love of nature.

I would say also, if you look at history, you can thank some of the non profits and their advocacy for the very existance of public park lands- national parks. wilderness areas, national monuments etc.

And yes Sequoias are relatively fast growing, but a mature one takes centuries and the jaw droppers take millenia.


Sometimes I think the idea of abundance makes us take for granted the limited supply.
There are a shitton of Giant Sequoia groves. All them are amazing.

Yeah, but,

Man...............lots of dead Sequoias.

Nothing old growth, but still big, beautiful trees..........burnt up and on the ground.


r32- the list you linked lists only the ones on federal land. If you're ever up in the Mendocino area check out Montgomery Grove. Kind of isolated, hidden, tucked away and... magical-

 
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PRCD

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They also rely on an army of volunteers who work for free, purely for the love of nature.

I would say also, if you look at history, you can thank some of the non profits and their advocacy for the very existance of public park lands- national parks. wilderness areas, national monuments etc.


And yes Sequoias are relatively fast growing, but a mature one takes centuries and the jaw droppers take millenia.


Sometimes I think the idea of abundance makes us take for granted the limited supply.


Yeah, but,



So our approach is failing - and this is exactly the point I'm trying to make. The big sequioas survived countless wildfires in the past. Now they're burning because there is too much fuel underneath them. Envirornmentalist obstructionists and incompetent bureaucrats are preventing the clearance of underbrush and smaller trees.
 

r32

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They also rely on an army of volunteers who work for free, purely for the love of nature.

I would say also, if you look at history, you can thank some of the non profits and their advocacy for the very existance of public park lands- national parks. wilderness areas, national monuments etc.

And yes Sequoias are relatively fast growing, but a mature one takes centuries and the jaw droppers take millenia.


Sometimes I think the idea of abundance makes us take for granted the limited supply.


Yeah, but,





r32- the list you linked lists only the ones on federal land. If you're ever up in the Mendocino area check out Montgomery Grove. Kind of isolated, hidden, tucked away and... magical-

Thanks. Haven't been up that far in a decade. Was at Tamales Bay a couple years ago. Would love to see a new grove. Those giant trees trip me out, and I've never even taken drugs. Lol
 
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Iceman

Phil Edwards status
Apr 1, 2002
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Headed to the McKinney Fire.
Probably wont have signal way deep in the Klamath Natl Forest, but I'll report back when I re-emerge.
Thanks for all your work on the Oak! I was worried the smoke would deter my backpacking trip to Desolation last week, but it ended up being smoke free.

My department sent an engine to the Oak Fire and they also got reassigned to the McKinney. We'll see how much work is needed after this weekend, as I'm slated to be part of the crew swap on Sunday. You'll probably have the thing out by then!
 

Firebird

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Thanks for all your work on the Oak! I was worried the smoke would deter my backpacking trip to Desolation last week, but it ended up being smoke free.

My department sent an engine to the Oak Fire and they also got reassigned to the McKinney. We'll see how much work is needed after this weekend, as I'm slated to be part of the crew swap on Sunday. You'll probably have the thing out by then!
I think I talked to your boys in camp this AM.
is it a type 3 that serves Aptos, Soquel, Capitola, etc?
Good dudes. Talked to them about surfing The Hook.
 

Firebird

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That's us! How's it going out there?
We were supposed to do a 24, but the weather changed to thunder showers.
We came off the line about 1800 and it poured rain and lightning everywhere. Fire camp is flooded. But we found a killer little Italian place that’s open even with the evacuation. Who knows what will happen tomorrow?
Your boys seemed to be in good spirits. Not sure what division they ended up on.
 

One-Off

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We were supposed to do a 24, but the weather changed to thunder showers.
We came off the line about 1800 and it poured rain and lightning everywhere. Fire camp is flooded. But we found a killer little Italian place that’s open even with the evacuation. Who knows what will happen tomorrow?
Your boys seemed to be in good spirits. Not sure what division they ended up on.
:applause2:

Got to love it when nature lends a helping hand.
 
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Subway

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I always scoffed at the stereo typical chicks with their “hot firemen” calendars and birthday cards.

But honestly after following this thread I may get one for the kitchen.
 

Firebird

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One of my guys hurt his knee putting in a hose lay about midnight.
I’m at the ER in Yreka getting him looked at.
I think he’ll be fine, but injuries go up on night ops.
 
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Subway

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Balls the size of watermelons, the lot of ya :bowdown:

hope your buddy heals up well, let him know (or don’t ) that a bunch of weird internet surfers are proud of you all and pulling for ya
 
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PPK96754

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Balls the size of watermelons, the lot of ya :bowdown:

hope your buddy heals up well, let him know (or don’t) that a bunch of weird internet surfers are proud of you all and pulling for ya
Speaking of balls. Rocks / boulders becoming dislodged at night are quite spectacular rolling down the side of a hill going through the manzanita with embers flying, not so much if someone is yelling "rocks" multiple times near by ~
 
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Iceman

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We're doing a crew swap on Monday so I'll be heading up to the McKinney to join the party! Except it sounds like there isn't much of a party left since they've just been doing a bunch of mop up.

Firebird, you still gonna be around?
 

One-Off

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We're doing a crew swap on Monday so I'll be heading up to the McKinney to join the party! Except it sounds like there isn't much of a party left since they've just been doing a bunch of mop up.

Firebird, you still gonna be around?
Mop up? I just read it is only 30% contained. I hope that was old news. Stay safe.
 

One-Off

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So our approach is failing - and this is exactly the point I'm trying to make. The big sequioas survived countless wildfires in the past. Now they're burning because there is too much fuel underneath them. Envirornmentalist obstructionists and incompetent bureaucrats are preventing the clearance of underbrush and smaller trees.
I believe the approach has already changed. The recognition of the importance or prescribed burns and thinning is pretty universal. But this proposed act would exempt the decision making process from any public observation/participation -

"(e) Federal Advisory Committee Act.—The Federal Advisory Committee Act (5 U.S.C. App.) shall not apply to the Coalition."

Also the environemental review can be expedited/fast tracked without being completely eliminated as the Act would do. I would guess a lot of the science has already been done. I can't believe no one has studied the methods and effects of forest thinning and controlled burns.


I'm not not saying I'm against the Act- the additional funding would be very welcome, expediting the reveiw process would be great- but the lack of transparency requested to me raises some red flags.
 

Iceman

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Mop up? I just read it is only 30% contained. I hope that was old news. Stay safe.
There are certain criteria that has to be met in order for a section of line to be considered officially "contained." This usually includes a fire line/dozer line up to the edge of the burn, a water source (usually a very long hoselay along said line), AND no hotspots within 300 feet of that line minimum.

So basically, you can have a fire that isn't actively burning, has containment line around it, but if it doesn't have those other qualifiers, it cannot be considered officially contained. So mop up is usually putting in all that hose and putting out hotspots 300 feet from the line. Lots of hiking and humping hose.


I've been on some fires that look completely out, and everybody is wondering what the heck we are doing there. No smoke, no active burning. Two days later, the wind picks up, embers start throwing up little smokes within the burn area, and then one little ember makes it way across the line, torches off, and 5 minutes later, 100 acres already burned and it has a head of steam up the hill with no way to stop it. That scenario has become more frequent in recent years, so operations will retain resources longer just in case, and containment percentages are always conservative based on appearance.
 

One-Off

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There are certain criteria that has to be met in order for a section of line to be considered officially "contained." This usually includes a fire line/dozer line up to the edge of the burn, a water source (usually a very long hoselay along said line), AND no hotspots within 300 feet of that line minimum.

So basically, you can have a fire that isn't actively burning, has containment line around it, but if it doesn't have those other qualifiers, it cannot be considered officially contained. So mop up is usually putting in all that hose and putting out hotspots 300 feet from the line. Lots of hiking and humping hose.


I've been on some fires that look completely out, and everybody is wondering what the heck we are doing there. No smoke, no active burning. Two days later, the wind picks up, embers start throwing up little smokes within the burn area, and then one little ember makes it way across the line, torches off, and 5 minutes later, 100 acres already burned and it has a head of steam up the hill with no way to stop it. That scenario has become more frequent in recent years, so operations will retain resources longer just in case, and containment percentages are always conservative based on appearance.
Well, for your sakes I hope the wet conditions make it stay down.

Are fire fighters involved in the controlled burns in the "off season"?
 
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Firebird

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We're doing a crew swap on Monday so I'll be heading up to the McKinney to join the party! Except it sounds like there isn't much of a party left since they've just been doing a bunch of mop up.

Firebird, you still gonna be around?
Yep! Got extended to 21 days, so unless we get reassigned to another fire, I'll be coming off the line Monday morning.
Just got in to our hotel room for our 24 off. We had to drive all the way to Medford for a room, but worth it, because the sleep trailers are good in s pinch, but not for a 21 day assignment.
I saw your engine this morning. I think we are on the same rotation. I'll come say hi when I see your strike team.
I'm on an OES type 6 strike team. We have:
Long Beach
Arcadia
Compton
Sierra Madre
Torrance
I'm on the Sierra Madre engine. If you see me first, say hi.
 
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Firebird

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There are certain criteria that has to be met in order for a section of line to be considered officially "contained." This usually includes a fire line/dozer line up to the edge of the burn, a water source (usually a very long hoselay along said line), AND no hotspots within 300 feet of that line minimum.

So basically, you can have a fire that isn't actively burning, has containment line around it, but if it doesn't have those other qualifiers, it cannot be considered officially contained. So mop up is usually putting in all that hose and putting out hotspots 300 feet from the line. Lots of hiking and humping hose.


I've been on some fires that look completely out, and everybody is wondering what the heck we are doing there. No smoke, no active burning. Two days later, the wind picks up, embers start throwing up little smokes within the burn area, and then one little ember makes it way across the line, torches off, and 5 minutes later, 100 acres already burned and it has a head of steam up the hill with no way to stop it. That scenario has become more frequent in recent years, so operations will retain resources longer just in case, and containment percentages are always conservative based on appearance.
I agree with all of this.
 
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