The Bezt Complexes/Circuits and Intervals for Surfing

[PRCD]

I ain't a spring chicken and I hate doing lots of cardio. If you could minimize cardio time but maximize the effects of cardio, what complexes/circuits and intervals would you do? How many intervals and what work/rest times would they have? What exercises would you be sure to include? Or, would you just skip rope or use the Airdyne or some combination?

TIA.

 

[Chocki]

1/4 work rest ratios. 20 sec work, 1min 20 sec rest x 10. Choose your own poison. You’ve picked a good one when you think it’s too easy to start, fine in the middle, and by the end it completely sucks. To quote/paraphrase Max Shank “high skill movements should not be done for conditioning”

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As far as complexes go, there is only one true god. The Armor Building Complex.

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[Havoc]

Barbend lolz

 

[Chocki]

I ain't a spring chicken and I hate doing lots of cardio. If you could minimize cardio time but maximize the effects of cardio, what complexes/circuits and intervals would you do? How many intervals and what work/rest times would they have? What exercises would you be sure to include? Or, would you just skip rope or use the Airdyne or some combination?

TIA.

Nothing has made me want to puke faster. Perfect for 1/4 interval training and if I was still surfing...
Asked Max what he thought about them and he loved them. Something about how they’re self scaling and impossible to hurt yourself?

 

[PRCD]

Have you seen these?

 

[Chocki]

Have you seen these?

I’ve seen the equivalent. Trying to make a buck reinventing the wheel. Disagree that battle ropes are not appropriate for children/old people. The right sized rope(not too thick) used properly is self scaling. If you were traveling and wanted to replicate BR work you could just use a big towel (credit goes to Max for that one lol).

 

[Havoc]

how do u duuuu's even have energy for cardio after heavy lifting? i'm only doing 3 min warmup echo bike then lift and maybe another 3 after. but i'm usually too spent.

also, i noticed metcon or cardio stuff saps strength. surfing does also. it's annoying since strength acquisition is far more difficult to attain and keep

 

[PRCD]

how do u duuuu's even have energy for cardio after heavy lifting? i'm only doing 3 min warmup echo bike then lift and maybe another 3 after. but i'm usually too spent.

also, i noticed metcon or cardio stuff saps strength. surfing does also. it's annoying since strength acquisition is far more difficult to attain and keep

This is where a good coach comes in and I'm not qualified to answer this question. What are your goals? To be strong? Why? Does surfing require a lot of raw strength or more strength endurance? IOW, for surfing do you want a huge squat or are you better off being able to squat 225 x 50?

I was thinking about doing cardio on the days I don't surf for about 5-10 minutes. I do lift on days where I surf, but it's bodybuilding training. Check out Scott ABel's "HGS 2.0" I assume that based on my age and surfing that my recovery is inhibited so the program accounts for this and you throttle the effort, weight and rest based on subjective experience for prescribed rep ranges.

 

[Havoc]

This is where a good coach comes in and I'm not qualified to answer this question. What are your goals? To be strong? Why? Does surfing require a lot of raw strength or more strength endurance? IOW, for surfing do you want a huge squat or are you better off being able to squat 225 x 50?

I was thinking about doing cardio on the days I don't surf for about 5-10 minutes. I do lift on days where I surf, but it's bodybuilding training. Check out Scott ABel's "HGS 2.0" I assume that based on my age and surfing that my recovery is inhibited so the program accounts for this and you throttle the effort, weight and rest based on subjective experience for prescribed rep ranges.

i have top level strength coach. strength = tiger sheds. issue is training both but nobody has the answer. i've asked around for a while.

max shank rings training panacea in 3,2,1....

 

[PRCD]

i have top level strength coach. strength = tiger sheds. issue is training both but nobody has the answer. i've asked around for a while.

max shank rings training panacea in 3,2,1....

Well, here's Rip's answer haha:

Conditioning is a Sham

According to Rippetoe, you're better off training strength than you are training conditioning. Here’s why.

www.t-nation.com

Obviously someone playing a sport needs conditioning. I think energy systems work is probably really helpful. Paging @VonMeister....

 

[PRCD]

i have top level strength coach. strength = tiger sheds. issue is training both but nobody has the answer. i've asked around for a while.

max shank rings training panacea in 3,2,1....

I tried @Chocki's intervals on an Airdyne. I did 5 for 6 minutes of METCON. I don't think it's going to affect your strength much, but you could try doing upper body stuff for METCON on squat day. IDK how many days you're lifting and which days you're squatting/DLing, but I'd start with 5 intervals on off days and see what happens. I'm guessing nothing will happen to your strength but your conditioning will improve. Your body will adapt over time.

 

[Havoc]

Surfing actually fks up my strength gains more than anything.

 

[Chocki]

I tried @Chocki's intervals on an Airdyne. I did 5 for 6 minutes of METCON. I don't think it's going to affect your strength much, but you could try doing upper body stuff for METCON on squat day. IDK how many days you're lifting and which days you're squatting/DLing, but I'd start with 5 intervals on off days and see what happens. I'm guessing nothing will happen to your strength but your conditioning will improve. Your body will adapt over time.

Not my intervals and not Craig Marker or anyone else’s lol.

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Conditioning on a separate day or at the end of your session

Max Shank's Ultimate Athlete Training Template - Breaking Muscle

Training can turn into a whole lot of fuzzy reasoning in a hurry when you start to introduce different components. This is a large part of why people gravitate toward one thing – simplicity. Simplifying is usually good, but not if it is costing you potential benefits. Being able to gain the...

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[VonMeister]

how do u duuuu's even have energy for cardio after heavy lifting? i'm only doing 3 min warmup echo bike then lift and maybe another 3 after. but i'm usually too spent.

also, i noticed metcon or cardio stuff saps strength. surfing does also. it's annoying since strength acquisition is far more difficult to attain and keep

Cardio doesn't sap strength, not recovering from lifting stress saps strength (assuming you're getting enough sleep and calories). If your focused on getting stronger as fast as you can...that's your focus. If you are looking for strength plus general physical health you have to accept the give and take. You can still gain strength but it's not going to show in a one rep max...until you start training again specific to a one rep max. Strength is specific and we know what specific means.

Generally you need a minimum of 60 minutes per week of aerobic activity to be healthy. Surfing for two hours will fill this. You should also add one day per week of anaerobic training to your program 20sec @110% / 120 sec rest on the Echo for as many rounds as you can do but anything past ten is going to leave you with diminishing return on the time investment. If your focus is just raw strength the above is just going to get in the way.

Right now I'm running a self regulated lower intensity block. Rip thinks RPE is just an excuse for people not to work hard but there is real science that shows strength gains are simply a result of stress accumulation and that constant high strength intensity and excess fatigue actually inhibit recovery and resultant strength.

Main lifts:
Triple at RPE 7-8 which is just above an 80% intensity. Last two warm up sets are heavy but not taxing.
Back off sets: *.75 of last triple 4 sets of 5 which is usually in the 65-70% intensity range

I run a triple instead of a single because if I overshoot on RPE I don't really exceed my intensity range because the first two reps added stress to the third so theoretically it's not a true 8 or 9 anyway.

Accessory Lifts separate days
Squat: Pause squat 4x5 at RPE6ish, Safety Squat bar 5x10-12 RPE 6ish.
Deadlift Pause Deadlift 4x5 at REP6ish. Pendalay Rows 5x10 RPE 6ish
Bench and Press 5x10 RPE 6ish.

I'm accumulating as much or more stress as I do in a strength focused program but at a lower intensity which helps keep residual fatigue much lower. I'm adding weight to the bar at regular intervals...I'm just not grinding out reps which results in maxing out intensity on every rep and tons of useless residual fatigue. It's unsustainable except for young guys or those with ridiculous genetics. Grinding works for novices because everything works for novices for a period of time.

I do 30 minutes on the Echo every morning before coffee unless I'm surfing or playing golf (I walk) that day. A pace where I can comfortably have a conversation. Every Saturday morning is anaerobic and I hate myself afterwards until around lunchtime.

 

[PRCD]

Are RPE and intensity the same thing? "Intensity" means a lot of different things to different people. One guy defines it as, "The ability to come as close as you can to your maximum workload capacity. Intensity is a learned skill. If you stick with it, then five years from now you will be capable of more intensity than you are now."

Interesting that you recommend an anaerobic day with a 1:6 work/rest ratio. I'll try that. Do you just do nothing on the rest interval or pedal the bike slowly.

Right now I'm running a self regulated lower intensity block. Rip thinks RPE is just an excuse for people not to work hard but there is real science that shows strength gains are simply a result of stress accumulation and that constant high strength intensity and excess fatigue actually inhibit recovery and resultant strength.

Rip is very one-track minded. So much of lifting is preserving training momentum over months and years. Like I said, I ground out reps and plateaud. There definitely has to be some self-regulation even to overcome the mental hurdle of getting into the gym and under the bar. Willpower alone cannot do it. Then there are the accumulated stresses that must be dealt with. Some people think you can right the perfect program to deal with this beforehand, but I doubt it. Ed Coan was good at this, but how rare was he? So much in trianing is subjective and subject to life events.

Rip needs to lose some weight and probably do some cardio and anaerobic work.

 

[Havoc]

Intensity is the amount of weight lifted. Increase intensity means lift more weight. U play with vol n intensity in the strength world

 

[VonMeister]

Intensity is the measure of effort. Doing single rep at RPE 10 is much more intense than doing a single rep at RPE 8.

If you look at the following examples, which one moved more weight causing more stress....but less fatigue? Look at the difference in intensity.

Example 1


Example 2

 

[VonMeister]

Are RPE and intensity the same thing? "Intensity" means a lot of different things to different people. One guy defines it as, "The ability to come as close as you can to your maximum workload capacity. Intensity is a learned skill. If you stick with it, then five years from now you will be capable of more intensity than you are now."

Interesting that you recommend an anaerobic day with a 1:6 work/rest ratio. I'll try that. Do you just do nothing on the rest interval or pedal the bike slowly.


Rip is very one-track minded. So much of lifting is preserving training momentum over months and years. Like I said, I ground out reps and plateaud. There definitely has to be some self-regulation even to overcome the mental hurdle of getting into the gym and under the bar. Willpower alone cannot do it. Then there are the accumulated stresses that must be dealt with. Some people think you can right the perfect program to deal with this beforehand, but I doubt it. Ed Coan was good at this, but how rare was he? So much in trianing is subjective and subject to life events.

Rip needs to lose some weight and probably do some cardio and anaerobic work.

Plateauing is the result of late program adjustment and unrealistic expectations.

When I see training sessions are becoming a grind and the last reps aren't getting easier, the solution isn't to yell "Hips" and grind a trainee. Before it gets to that point you need to adjust volume or resistance to keep the overall stress high enough to drive adaptation but to keep the bar moving and limit fatigue overload. Small changes over several weeks to keep things moving. A novice can add 5 pounds or more per training session for several weeks before hitting a limit, where an intermediate lifter may add 5 pounds per week and advanced intermediates may get 5 pounds once every several weeks. Years ago when I did SSLP the last few weeks were miserable. I was always fighting fatigue, wanted to sleep all day and every training session was 2 hours minimum. I got strong no doubt but it was unsustainable for a guy in his 40's and just moving to a HLM or modified Texas method wasn't going to be the answer. Now in my 50's I train regularly, I'm stronger than before and still able to walk 2 or 3 rounds of golf per week and surf daily if there's swell in the water.

Grinding out reps is a young mans game.

On the 1:6 you can do nothing or just coast...it really doesn't matter. You're not getting any work by slowly peddling but some people prefer it. It's a ball breaker but it's probably the single biggest improvement I made to paddling out on big days because you get adapted to maximum effort on low oxygen and cycling that as you duck dive.

 

[VonMeister]

On the 1:6 you can do nothing or just coast...it really doesn't matter. You're not getting any work by slowly peddling but some people prefer it. It's a ball breaker but it's probably the single biggest improvement I made to paddling out on big days because you get adapted to maximum effort on low oxygen and cycling that as you duck dive.

 

[PRCD]

Intensity is the measure of effort. Doing single rep at RPE 10 is much more intense than doing a single rep at RPE 8.

If you look at the following examples, which one moved more weight causing more stress....but less fatigue? Look at the difference in intensity.

Example 1
View attachment 102308

Example 2
View attachment 102307

Getting volume out of back-off sets seems mentally a ton easier than doing triples for sets across at the highest RPE. I bet the bar speed is a lot better in the back-off sets. Speaking of that, do you think speed factors into intensity? For example, if I'm working closer to my 1 RM, my RPE will be greater but the bar speed will be slower. If I take weight off the bar, I can move it a ton faster and still keep my RPE high, can't I?