SoCal winter thunderdome: Blackbird vs. Ghost

tedshred5

Michael Peterson status
Aug 5, 2015
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My 6'3" step up ghost got a lot more use up north than down here but like today it felt good having it with the recent swell and it worked well. I haven't had the need to go longer down on this end. Maybe if I stayed closer to a certain swell magnet. For me surfing a 6'3" vs a 6'8" is drastic and I dont surf them nearly the same.

I'm with you on the fact that I love my 5'6" fish, but its a pain sometimes paddling on bigger days. This was the reason I recently ordered a 6'3" Townsend. Hoping to get a little of that twin fish feel but additional paddling power on the random bigger days.
I'm considering something similar, a 6'4 Album Moonstone as an alt step up for that fish feel with added paddle power
 

Maz

Michael Peterson status
May 18, 2004
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Innzid
My apologies, guys, if I was being an idiot yesterday. I just thought that you got sizey waves more often. Are that canyony beach break and the friendly peninsula the only spots that hold size?
 
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oeste858

Phil Edwards status
Sep 11, 2017
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I'm considering something similar, a 6'4 Album Moonstone as an alt step up for that fish feel with added paddle power
Not to confuse you, but I was also looking at a video of Album's Ledge, and that looked interesting too.
But for me, really, I know and like what the BB does and think a bit smaller one might be good, but also curious if the Ghost could be used in these waves. No boat trips in my future so if it's just a good barrel board, then it's not for me, but JJF can sure carve it at Margret River.
 
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LiamUnknown

Nep status
Jun 16, 2004
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My apologies, guys, if I was being an idiot yesterday. I just thought that you got sizey waves more often. Are that canyony beach break and the friendly peninsula the only spots that hold size?
yes pretty much. There's some reefs in la jolla and waves in sunset cliffs but the main three are the canyony beach break, the friendly peninsula and the SUP reef.
 

retodd

Duke status
Feb 23, 2009
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Ok , I will chine in

Rockers , foil are similar

Bottom contours of the BB are what I think will make it a more versatile option. Shallower concave and vee out the back with keep it free on the open faces of the reefs

The Ghost has more single and that only really shines when pumping thru toobs and hind legg carves on critical parts of waves . Kinda sticky when not being aggressively pushed

My .002 cents out
 

sdsrfr

Phil Edwards status
Jul 13, 2020
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BB has v in the entry, too. I like to think it does something to help cut through but maybe it’s other things.

i also had a 6’3 BB that was a used custom, thinned out and pretty versatile (29L, im 165lbs). Was surprised how well it still worked in smaller waves and across flats to the next bowl. Heavy glass schedule and cut through chop like a dream. Had some memorable rides in Duffyville at the break he don’t surf.

unfortunately the last El Niño killed it when I went for a hopeless lip hit and instead was body slammed onto it. Didn’t break but I put two large holes in the bottom where my elbows hit and unloaded it cheap.
 

tedshred5

Michael Peterson status
Aug 5, 2015
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Not to confuse you, but I was also looking at a video of Album's Ledge, and that looked interesting too.
But for me, really, I know and like what the BB does and think a bit smaller one might be good, but also curious if the Ghost could be used in these waves. No boat trips in my future so if it's just a good barrel board, then it's not for me, but JJF can sure carve it at Margret River.
interesting, from what I've heard the Ledge is designed to be more of a barrel chaser a la Rusty Slayer
 

Lohena

OTF status
Oct 30, 2019
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Ok , I will chine in

Rockers , foil are similar

Bottom contours of the BB are what I think will make it a more versatile option. Shallower concave and vee out the back with keep it free on the open faces of the reefs

The Ghost has more single and that only really shines when pumping thru toobs and hind legg carves on critical parts of waves . Kinda sticky when not being aggressively pushed

My .002 cents out
Dude, that's super interesting to think about. That's almost my experience spot on with the Ghost. In juicy overhead waves it can turn like a shortboard, but I've also experienced that sticky "tracky" feeling usually in less steep waves. Mine is on the thick end of things for me, so I just chalked it up to being a little full in the rails. In contrast, the boards I have (3 currently) with vee in the tail always turn well in both flat and steep conditions, and never feel sticky.

I have another DD (JS Monstabox) without vee, and it in contrast turns well in flatter waves, but feels sticky and tracks in steeper waves. I think you're spot on with saying vee in the tail adds versatility, as it has been my experience, but not something I frequently have thought about. They're also a lot more flexible with fins, as they seem to do well regardless of what I put in, while the other ones are much more sensitive to the types of fins I put in.

Now I'm little concerned that I just ordered a HS Misc. twin without vee!
 
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jkb

Tom Curren status
Feb 22, 2005
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I like the outline of the BB better. The wide point is centered (but still plenty of width to the nose) and there is a straighter rail line in the middle of the board, which makes me think "front foot gas pedal". I've gone back and forth between these two boards and for me, the BB sounds like it would work better.
 
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oeste858

Phil Edwards status
Sep 11, 2017
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interesting, from what I've heard the Ledge is designed to be more of a barrel chaser a la Rusty Slayer
Yeah, the video Matt said they were all pleasantly surprised by how well it carved on rail too

@retodd knowledge bombs ftw! Telling me what I suspected but needed to hear. Let’s be honest, was trying to get you guys to convince me I could use a ghost. But if I really believed that, I probably would already have one by now. Realistically a 6’2-6’4” Phantom might even be better Pyzel for these waves.

I did the same 6’2 Blackbeard build on the R. site and also XTR. Think that’s gonna be the answer for me.
thanks bros!
 
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MathDebater

Michael Peterson status
Apr 13, 2016
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SD
Ok , I will chine in

Rockers , foil are similar

Bottom contours of the BB are what I think will make it a more versatile option. Shallower concave and vee out the back with keep it free on the open faces of the reefs

The Ghost has more single and that only really shines when pumping thru toobs and hind legg carves on critical parts of waves . Kinda sticky when not being aggressively pushed

My .002 cents out
This, I have a 6'3" skinny ghost and a a 7'0" skinny BB (I'm 190 ish). The BB is new to me but I've already found it to be more versatile than the ghost which I have found really needs good shape. When the shape as good it's amazing, but in our flatter waves it's tuff sometimes. BB seems to handle the flat spots better.

But I am also trying to find something between my dd's (GX/Banjo) and these boards. Think I'm going to jump on the round tail twin train at some point with the intent of using it on consistent/solid OH + days at the cliffs.
 

Senor Sopa

Billy Hamilton status
Mar 11, 2015
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My apologies, guys, if I was being an idiot yesterday. I just thought that you got sizey waves more often. Are that canyony beach break and the friendly peninsula the only spots that hold size?
Not sure how big you're talking about. Plenty of spots can handle doh. The spots Oeste goes to break way, way out when there is size. Personally I want a bigger board to manage the long paddles. For the most part, those spots aren't packing barrels and should not be considered scary.

Oeste, you said your friend paddles circles around you. Try his board out.
 
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oeste858

Phil Edwards status
Sep 11, 2017
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no, that was someone else. but his friend had 6'10, and I'm looking to step down a couple inches from my 6'8.
The long paddle is the only reason I didn't ride 5'9 quad fish today. Rode the 6'8 at OH+ point/reef and it just confirmed that it's overkill below DOH. Just a little too much board, even if I did have some nice carves and it stuck all the drops. 6'4-6'5 should be just about goldilocks. I guess I should've bought SBD's last year.
 
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Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
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Ok , I will chine in

Rockers , foil are similar

Bottom contours of the BB are what I think will make it a more versatile option. Shallower concave and vee out the back with keep it free on the open faces of the reefs

The Ghost has more single and that only really shines when pumping thru toobs and hind legg carves on critical parts of waves . Kinda sticky when not being aggressively pushed

My .002 cents out
If that is based on real experience from riding the BB and Ghost then it is worth more than .002 cents to the prospective purchaser.

I'm reaching similar conclusions to you regarding light Vs deep concave. It only takes a few mm of concave to make it more reactive and able to sit high on the surface when some easy speed is needed. I used to theorise that the deeper the concave the more reactive and more sit on the surface lift - but it seems not. Instead the more turned down rail of the deeper concave bites more - this based on a chance encounter and conversation with surf journalist Nick Carrol at an uncrowded day in Bells - he was happy to chat and turn his Maurice Cole surfboard upside down to show me. He said despite the deep concave the board felt "very normal". So could not have been super reactive and skatey.

My toy step up has what I would describe as a light double inside a moderate single concave, but not MC deep. I haven't seen a Ghost, but somewhere in this message board I asked Maz to run a straight edge over the underneath of his and I think this is what he described. My toy step up feels like it has less lift than my two lightly concaved HPSBs. I do get the push back of the concave though. However, there are things not quite right with my toy step up (self build).

I don't think V in the tail helps on open faces though. Light concave or flat helps that. I am speaking from a mixture of experience and theory - the trouble with experience is that we don't have the time and money to just change one thing, so when comparing a V'd board with a non V'd board there are other things different too which confuses the comparison. As for theory I might be getting that wrong. Anyway, what I think V does is kill a bit of lift, so helps things keep under control in more critical steepness and power. It also helps bank the board over at speed - this is more important in wide squash tailed boards and the Ghost is both narrowish and rounded pin, so banking it over from the back foot shouldn't need the help of V.

Another possible explanation as to why the Ghost likes steeper waves and more pumping is that it has high rocker (I don't know if it does), but high rocker boards do seem to need more top to bottom pumping to keep them at max speed.