SF - ideas on where to live?

Sharkbiscuit

Tom Curren status
Aug 6, 2003
12,893
3,965
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Jacksonville Beach
You're barking up the wrong tree. Government taxes don't fund and build low income housing construction, developers and private investors do. Increased tax receipts will do nothing to solve that issue. The private sector has no incentive to build low income housing because the cost of building is so friggin high, especially in SF, while aside form the cost of land is because of permits and fees. Therefore they may as well just spend a bit more on the finishes to turn them into luxury condos.

If you really want to increase the amount of low income hosuing, then maybe don't require that contractors jump through the same hoops and pay the same fees that they would for any other type of housing?
???

Even Trump's HUD explicitly touts funding construction. Pretty sure NYCHA has used tax money to build housing for about half a million New Yorkers.

Looking around Jax Beach, from what I can tell, everyone wants more spending on something, nobody wants jack sh!t in more taxes, and when the one solution given those constraints is selected, everybody wants to bitch and moan when another luxury condo high rise or hideous Margaritaville pops up. Or Pete Buttigieg helps gentrify the neighborhood.

And lots of places don't have SF's earthquake concerns. That has to be a huge risk to the city's infrastructure, tax base, the whole 9.
 

grapedrink

Tom Curren status
May 21, 2011
12,416
3,302
113
A Beach
???

Even Trump's HUD explicitly touts funding construction. Pretty sure NYCHA has used tax money to build housing for about half a million New Yorkers.
I'm speaking traditionally. Not to say that publicly funded construction/housing does not exist, but if it does, it is a very small piece of the pie and has been sorely lacking in the last 10 years. At least in California, I can't speak for other places.

Looking around Jax Beach, from what I can tell, everyone wants more spending on something, nobody wants jack sh!t in more taxes, and when the one solution given those constraints is selected, everybody wants to bitch and moan when another luxury condo high rise or hideous Margaritaville pops up. Or Pete Buttigieg helps gentrify the neighborhood.
Florida, and a lot of the midwest and east coast seem to have the opposite problem as here. You guys have towns with <100k year round populations with numerous double-digit story condo complexes fronting the beach. Which helps keep hiousing costs lower for everyone, even if it is intended for visitors. Whereas here, simply suggesting a building more than 3 stories in a coastal beach town will have pitchforks and torches outside your $800k 2 bedroom house faster than you can blend a soylent green hemp protein shake.

And lots of places don't have SF's earthquake concerns. That has to be a huge risk to the city's infrastructure, tax base, the whole 9.
Sure, but that's what engineers are for. Nothing is 100% safe but the risk can be mitigated. California gubmints doesn't have an income problem, they have spending problems.
 

Sharkbiscuit

Tom Curren status
Aug 6, 2003
12,893
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Jacksonville Beach
Florida, and a lot of the midwest and east coast seem to have the opposite problem as here. You guys have towns with <100k year round populations with numerous double-digit story condo complexes fronting the beach. Which helps keep hiousing costs lower for everyone, even if it is intended for visitors. Whereas here, simply suggesting a building more than 3 stories in a coastal beach town will have pitchforks and torches outside your $800k 2 bedroom house faster than you can blend a soylent green hemp protein shake.
South Florida is easily as urban as everything in CA except SF. The rest of the high rises are generally in certain parts of Tampa, Daytona, Jax Beach, and the Spring Break zones in the Panhandle. Elsewhere, it's like you say. They'd have shotguns outside your door faster than you can keel over from your A/C bill.

Where I grew up in Vero, there's like three buildings over four stories, and new ones that size are straight up against the law. The 3br I grew up in, purchased in the late 80s, Zillow estimate is ~$650k. My Dad drove a cement mixer in Florida. I think affordable housing South of I-4 is a ship that has sailed.

Then think about what you earn. Factor that in, pretty soon, SF is more affordable than Miami:
 

grapedrink

Tom Curren status
May 21, 2011
12,416
3,302
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A Beach
South Florida is easily as urban as everything in CA except SF. The rest of the high rises are generally in certain parts of Tampa, Daytona, Jax Beach, and the Spring Break zones in the Panhandle. Elsewhere, it's like you say. They'd have shotguns outside your door faster than you can keel over from your A/C bill.
For sure, and I was also talking about beach towns in the Carolinas. Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't want that here.

Yeah, on the whole I imagine that Miami doesn't have the kind of salaries that SF and LA have. Although it's all relative to what you pay to live there, I guess. Reno is probably suffering from the fookery of California expats. As is Idaho, Austin, Bend, etc
 
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Sharkbiscuit

Tom Curren status
Aug 6, 2003
12,893
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Jacksonville Beach
It kind of surprises me that Sunset was considered affordable or working class. We always kind of thought of beachfront as the premium. Is that a jobs are on the other side of the peninsula thing, a fog/onshores thing, or the hilltops have the best view, or...?
 

casa_mugrienta

Duke status
Apr 13, 2008
28,827
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Petak Island
You're barking up the wrong tree. Government taxes don't fund and build low income housing construction, developers and private investors do. Increased tax receipts will do nothing to solve that issue. The private sector has no incentive to build low income housing because the cost of building is so friggin high, especially in SF, while aside form the cost of land is because of permits and fees. Therefore they may as well just spend a bit more on the finishes to turn them into luxury condos.

If you really want to increase the amount of low income hosuing, then maybe don't require that contractors jump through the same hoops and pay the same fees that they would for any other type of housing?
Bingo.
 

Ifallalot

Duke status
Dec 17, 2008
67,888
3,952
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HB, CA
Hi all,

Got offered a job in SF proper and had a few questions. Salary should be enough to live in the city.

What would be the best areas to live if you wanted to surf fairly consistently? I've done a bit of research and was looking at Inner Sunset or Haight -Ashbury as possibly decent places to live as they're close enough to the beach (I have a car) and close enough to transit to work (which is in the financial district).

The company also offered the possibility of working out of their San Jose office, but I'm not sure if its better surf wise and doesn't offer some of the benefits id get city wise (Im still under 30)

Anything else I should know about surfing in the Bay Area? I grew up surfing in Canada so it will actually be a lot warmer water than what I'm used to, but I assume my current quiver of boards is fairly useless for OB? (~30L shortboards from 5'10-6'3)
I'd work in the San Jose office and surf in Santa Cruz if I were you.

Rent will be cheaper too (relatively)
 

Woke AF

Phil Edwards status
Jul 29, 2009
7,558
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Southern Tip, Norcal
It kind of surprises me that Sunset was considered affordable or working class. We always kind of thought of beachfront as the premium. Is that a jobs are on the other side of the peninsula thing, a fog/onshores thing, or the hilltops have the best view, or...?
The weather even 16 years ago used to be much harsher. Colder, windier and blowing sand not to mention this side of Sutro Tower was usually overcast or foggy when the rest of the city was sunny.
Also, it has a long history of being the place for the dregs of the city. They used to dump old streetcars here and 'bohemians' made homes of them a century ago.
 

Bob Dobbalina

Gerry Lopez status
Feb 23, 2016
1,124
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It kind of surprises me that Sunset was considered affordable or working class. We always kind of thought of beachfront as the premium. Is that a jobs are on the other side of the peninsula thing, a fog/onshores thing, or the hilltops have the best view, or...?

Sunset is essentially a suburb.
 
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waxhead

OTF status
Mar 31, 2009
283
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I grew up at 44th and Ulloa. The houses there are attached. You could hear your neighbors when they fought. Our house was a three BR 1 1/2 bath and I think my dad paid about 12k in 1962 or so. It was definitely not Malibu. It was foggy and cold, usually onshore wind. Summers were foggy. Only Indian summer(Oct to early November) was reliably warm and clear. Cold water, crazy rips and currents. They often closed the Great Highway because the wind would blow so much sand it would cover large parts of the road. None of that has changed except that house would likely bring a million bucks today. Which today is lower middle class in SF.




It kind of surprises me that Sunset was considered affordable or working class. We always kind of thought of beachfront as the premium. Is that a jobs are on the other side of the peninsula thing, a fog/onshores thing, or the hilltops have the best view, or...?
 

Bob Dobbalina

Gerry Lopez status
Feb 23, 2016
1,124
731
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You're barking up the wrong tree. Government taxes don't fund and build low income housing construction, developers and private investors do. Increased tax receipts will do nothing to solve that issue. The private sector has no incentive to build low income housing because the cost of building is so friggin high, especially in SF, while aside form the cost of land is because of permits and fees. Therefore they may as well just spend a bit more on the finishes to turn them into luxury condos.

If you really want to increase the amount of low income hosuing, then maybe don't require that contractors jump through the same hoops and pay the same fees that they would for any other type of housing?

I would, and do, support the idea of allowing price breaks for developers that develop low income housing. I'm almost positive this is already in existence. Unfortunately....

 
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Bob Dobbalina

Gerry Lopez status
Feb 23, 2016
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I'd work in the San Jose office and surf in Santa Cruz if I were you.

Rent will be cheaper too (relatively)

I've sailed this ship. I lived in different areas of SJ for 6-7 years. I still work there.

The commute to SC isn't long, but it's taxing. Highway 17 sucks and surfing on a weekday during Daylight Savings is nearly impossible. Getting to the beach breaks takes even longer. For the most part, if you don't surf in town, you can get to OB in the same amount of time on a weekend. If you surf in town you're heading head on into crowded point breaks or novelty spots, each with it's own cast of characters, and kookery, some more welcoming than others

The rent in SJ is not good much better than SF with a fraction of the charm. Unless you like Vietnamese food and parking lots. In that case, SJ>>>SF

As a surfer, I prefer living in SF. Although I haven't surfed in a year, so WTF do I know?
 

SeaFoamGreen

Nep status
Apr 10, 2009
900
152
43
NorOR
Have read a few articles about rents dropping and vacancy rates increasing in SF, which is quite interesting to me. Lived there for a click in the late 90's while attending SFSU for post grad, in the Mission a few blocks from Dolores. Coming from the Central Or coast at the time, OBSF was a dream set up, an open beach that could actually hold a real swell, warmer water, and the winter weather was a prefect mix of sun and rain vs the perpetual drizzle and storms I was used to! I could surf the beach before, after, or in between classes and labs with ease as SFSU is right there. Then the music, food, and night life was a blast and quite the contrast from the sleepy redneck tweaker vibes of the OR coast esp in my late 20s.

This was right at the start of the dot com gold rush. Was crazy hard to find a good rental, kids showing up with brief cases of cash, but we lucked in to a room in a rent controlled area. Seems like this went on apparently until now? There was one short lived recession I remember. Anyways got tired of roommates and my 1st career gig was with County of San Mateo in RC, so ended up in HMB from 2000-2005 driving over the hill to work. After a year of communing landed a gig right in HMB and my commute was a short walk. Still surfed the Beach, but could also blast down to north county spots with ease. Small enviro company got bought out. I knew a good thing was coming to an end, dream was SLO but job sitch was tough, so we blasted back north to Portland where I got an offer knowing the affordability was going to end here which it did. But man I really miss it down there.
 
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Mr Doof

Duke status
Jan 23, 2002
20,092
1,759
113
San Francisco, CA
Sharkbiscuit said:
And lots of places don't have SF's earthquake concerns. That has to be a huge risk to the city's infrastructure, tax base, the whole 9.
Sure, but that's what engineers are for. Nothing is 100% safe but the risk can be mitigated. California gubmints doesn't have an income problem, they have spending problems.
When I got the new front stairs, had to pay $7K for the engineering/design from a P.E. to meet the new building codes.

There were 3 planned inspections before they poured the concrete to make sure the contractors did things right (and one after). Am happy there were inspections before because the contractor has to redo the forms and rebar for the foundation and then again for the steps. Worth the peace of mine for the permits I pulled that they won't fall apart if we get another Loma Prieta type quake, though all bets are off if the epicenter is a few miles away and > 6.
 

tsenn

Gerry Lopez status
Feb 11, 2004
1,233
71
48
san diego
But, what is SF truly like now...like in the past 5 years? I have not been in probably 10 years, but can you still go walk downtown without having to step over homeless people and crap like I read on the factual internet...?
 

SurfFuerteventura

Michael Peterson status
Sep 20, 2014
3,143
351
83
hulling, mostly...
Let me see...when not working or surfing, living in San Francisco provides me:

1 A single family home with a yard and a garage that lets me garden, tinker on the workbench, store stuff, and maybe one day, a retirement package (selling the place). Did I mention the garage or as a nephew called it, "Your unfinished bachelor den that smells like surf wax, boiled linseed oil, sawdust, and machine oil."

2 Ability to walk or ride bicycles, from my home to for food, drinks, entertainment, health care, visit friends transit and into SFO (airport) for travels.

3 Close to Hwy 1/101, I-80, for car trips when I get fed up with my fellow humans.

4 "Cultural" events...I know it sounds dorky, but a symphony, or gasp, a play/theatre production can be pretty fun. Maybe not as much fun as rock n roll clubs or other weirdo things in warehouses, or maybe it is just a different sort of fun that rich people have to gussie up so they can cut loose. No matter, fun can be fun even if it can be pretentious highbrow claptrap.

5 Neighborhood festivities! One of my favorites is the Columbus Day street fair in North Beach with the utterly goofy small town parade they have.

6 SF is a small town physically speaking, and I enjoy being able to get around it on foot/bike...like an giant urban playground...admittedly this is much more fun when there isn't a pandemic, and yeah, there are plenty of places I don't bother to go for a variety of reasons, and yeah, the urban-ness gets to me at times.

7 Shopping/"being seen"/'things involving the monetization of personal hygiene'/sporting events isn't something I do for pleasure, nor something I seek out, so those amenities are meh to me, but they do provide a background, and other people seem to like these things and makes them happy, so, humans being social beasts means you got to be comfy around your fellow human, and happy humans are good to be around.

8 After all these years here (longest I've ever living in a single town), a sense of belonging. This exists only my head and a stronger person could probably have this feeling after 6 months anywhere in the world.....maybe, I don't know.

9 All those property taxes I pay and I still have to pay to fix the sidewalk and deal with stupid kids who don't learn at the school I am paying for....you just can't find that angst everywhere for less money.

10 It is the middle of November and I have not turned on the AC since, well, since forever, and the heat? We did just put on the thicker bedding, so maybe no heat gets turned on till January....Think I turned that off 10 months back.



No, I haven't.
love me a good sf mr doof list!
 

SurfFuerteventura

Michael Peterson status
Sep 20, 2014
3,143
351
83
hulling, mostly...
But, what is SF truly like now...like in the past 5 years? I have not been in probably 10 years, but can you still go walk downtown without having to step over homeless people and crap like I read on the factual internet...?
i last visited in 2016 and was marvelled at the app my ex-roomate had, it told her where the poops were so she could walk around looking at her phone and not step in the homeless peoples' geotagged lumps! hahahahaha!
 

r32

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 1, 2005
13,226
1,790
113
Cambria
Every time I drive Highway 17, I feel like I'm going to die.

"According to several sources, the number of serious and deadly crashes on Highway 17 has more than quadrupled in the last decade. In 2016, for example, there were 983 crashes, as compared to 420 in 2013. This increase has led locals and news outlets to name it one of California's most dangerous highways. :
 

Mr Doof

Duke status
Jan 23, 2002
20,092
1,759
113
San Francisco, CA
What is SF like now?

A little overcast:

1605725723336.png

And we seem to be missing "our" peregrine, but maybe it is out hunting:

1605725789836.png

The homeless thing? Yeah, its still a problem, like it is in a lot of cities. Might be a little less sh!t on sidewalks. As much as I dislike locking people up for smelling like rotten chicken soup dressed in a garment of daggy excrement and spoiled milkshakes, some of the mentally ill wandering about could stand a good long stay in supervised care behind a locked gate after being lovingly spayed down with Pine-sol and Dawn.
 
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