SCOTUS: kneeling in sports

StuAzole

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So my revised statement would be:

Kaepernick was not prohibited from kneeling during the national anthem. This coach was prohibited from leading team prayers on the field. Kaepernick has every right to show contempt for the United States, but the people for whom he is showing contempt have every right not to pay for him to insult them. If you can't understand the difference then you are beyond reason.

This case was caused by people who want to stop this coach from worshiping at a school venue. There might be some intrenic merrit in separtating church and state like this defendant wants. Conversely, there could be merit to allowing the leader of this team to exercise his freedom of religion. However, that question was answered in 1789. The Constitution does not, as this defendant asserts, separate church from state . The Constitution prohibits the establishment of a state religion, and ensures that people have the freedom to worship. The Constitution also says that all powers not reserved to the federal government, including federal courts, are reserved "to the states respectively or to the people".

This case should be a slam dunk.
LOL, from the guy who brought us KrAKeN insight!
 
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afoaf

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This case should be a slam dunk.
except, you know, for every preceding supreme court case that prohibited prayer in the classroom

want to bet some of your mom's social security check on this one, squidtard?
 

StuAzole

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except, you know, for every preceding supreme court case that prohibited prayer in the classroom

want to bet some of your mom's social security check on this one, squidtard?
So this kooky court will likely allow stuff like this - technically not officially "required" so it's ok, even though it's unofficially required. It would never fly other than with Christian prayer, however.
 
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Sharkbiscuit

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except, you know, for every preceding supreme court case that prohibited prayer in the classroom

want to bet some of your mom's social security check on this one, squidtard?
Based on the SCOTUSblog post, it sounds like they're siding with the coach's side of the story where it's him doing it himself, not the group coercion.

Issues: (1) Whether a public-school employee who says a brief, quiet prayer by himself while at school and visible to students is engaged in government speech that lacks any First Amendment protection;

I don't think Roberts gives half a f--k about precedent and he's your 4th vote.

I think the odds are pretty good you're losing this one 5-4/6-3.
 

StuAzole

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Based on the SCOTUSblog post, it sounds like they're siding with the coach's side of the story where it's him doing it himself, not the group coercion.

Issues: (1) Whether a public-school employee who says a brief, quiet prayer by himself while at school and visible to students is engaged in government speech that lacks any First Amendment protection;

I don't think Roberts gives half a f--k about precedent and he's your 4th vote.

I think the odds are pretty good you're losing this one 5-4/6-3.
Where this sort of holding will eventually backfire is when a kid gets disciplined/benched for not participating. It'll happen, and it'll end up with a lawsuit. Districts are pretty fucked no matter what they do.
 
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afoaf

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How do we feel about Muslim prayer rooms in public schools?

Muslim students gather to pray inside a classroom at Liberty High.  Photo courtesy of Lara Solt/KERA News
previous cases have held that prayer at school is fine...creating spaces in school for voluntary participation is fine.

to biscuit's point, this case is going to hinge on whether people felt they were compelled to participate
 

StuAzole

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How do we feel about Muslim prayer rooms in public schools?

Muslim students gather to pray inside a classroom at Liberty High.  Photo courtesy of Lara Solt/KERA News
Yeah, there's no issue with anyone taking time during school to pray. I'm all for it if that's what people want to do. I do imagine that a lot of parents would be very "concerned" about a school giving Muslims a dedicated space to pray each day. Not for constitutional reasons, but because they might then fly planes into more buildings.

A sh!t-stirrer would start pushing satanism as their religion and have a school match any accommodations given to Christians.
 

plasticbertrand

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Jan 12, 2009
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Kaepernick has every right to show contempt for the United States, but the people for whom he is showing contempt have every right not to pay for him to insult them. If you can't understand the difference then you are beyond reason.
Imagine thinking that Kaepernick was "showing contempt for the United States" and to find it personally insulting.

Psychopathic thinking.

The only way Kaepernick's protest could be construed as contempt for the US, is if the state was protecting and encouraging cops like Chauvin, instead of prosecuting him and throwing him in jail.
 

Sharkbiscuit

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Where this sort of holding will eventually backfire is when a kid gets disciplined/benched for not participating. It'll happen, and it'll end up with a lawsuit. Districts are pretty fucked no matter what they do.
Proving that the kid was benched because of this sounds like a non-starter to me. Maybe if you had a coach with an agenda in West Hollywood or Cambridge, Massachusetts.

I would expect this to go basically nowhere in a place like Texas or Florida, and I wholeheartedly believe there'd be at least one teacher telling the kid "I'm sorry; it's your football game but my entire career. I'm lying under oath and selling you out and everyone else thinks you're in the wrong for not being a Christian, or they're going to follow orders vs give up employment and retirement benefits. Life ain't fair; hope you learned something."

If that SCOTUS blog is any indication, the way the case is framed, the coach did nothing wrong at all.


How do we feel about Muslim prayer rooms in public schools?

Muslim students gather to pray inside a classroom at Liberty High.  Photo courtesy of Lara Solt/KERA News
Is that a Muslim Prayer Room in a public school?

It looks like some Muslim students moved some desks aside momentarily, are doing their call to prayer thing, and then resuming secular learning vs. having a separate, taxpayer-funded Muslim Prayer Room.
 

plasticbertrand

Tom Curren status
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When the nutty religious coach does a quick prayer at the game, the atheists just need to humor him like you would a little mentally retarded child.
I agree, but it can be pretty frustrating to be coerced into doing something because a retard commands it.

I like to keep my eyes open during forced prayer and see who the eye closing psychopaths are in the group.

The national anthem performance is a whole another story of coercion.

People who are obsessed with symbolism trip me out.
 

hammies

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I think a lot depends on how they define coercion. Is the existence of coercion established by the person who felt coerced, or is it's existence established by the intent or words or actions of the person doing the coercing.

If coercion is established, then the establishment clause is probably violated and the plantiff loses, but if the court finds that the coach did not coerce players into praying or punish them for opting out, then he wins.
 

Bayview

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kap is unemployable, a disruptive employee. a talent wasted, the worst thing in life. life is determined not by wants but the choices you make.

a country founded on christian values (not a establishment of religion), principled by religious freedom (free exercise). don't like christianity, don't come here and don't try to change it. stay in the country founded on your religion, don't carry your problems here. i'm not sorry, good luck, xoxo, the Framers
 
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Ifallalot

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I agree, but it can be pretty frustrating to be coerced into doing something because a retard commands it.

I like to keep my eyes open during forced prayer and see who the eye closing psychopaths are in the group.

The national anthem performance is a whole another story of coercion.

People who are obsessed with symbolism trip me out.
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