So, XTR/ Epoxy Pro cancelled my Rusty Heckler order 3 weeks after placing it, saying they parted ways. Their next best thing is Torsion Spring. There's the Real Watersports review, but their reviews are always glowingly positive, to a fault Im sure. Any reviews from y'all?
REMINDER: THE ARENA PLATFORM, INC. has no obligation to monitor the Forums. However, THE ARENA PLATFORM, INC. reserves the right to review any materials submitted to or posted on the Forums, and remove, delete, redact or otherwise modify such materials, in its sole discretion and for any reason whatsoever, at any time and from time to time, without notice or further obligation to you. THE ARENA PLATFORM, INC. has no obligation to display or post any materials provided by you. THE ARENA PLATFORM, INC. reserves the right to disclose, at any time and from time to time, any information or materials that we deem necessary or appropriate to satisfy any applicable law, regulation, contract obligation, legal or dispute process or government request. Click on the following hyperlinks to further read the applicable Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.
Rusty Torsion Spring
- Thread starter MrSteve
- Start date
They're still working it out. This is straight from some guys at Rusty I was chatting up at Camp Shred a couple weeks ago. They were getting some delam issues on the XPS, so they've started to put the pin holes in like XTR. Thats all I got. No idea how they ride.
this is interesting and maybe should be in the schroff thread...im sure Javier isnt stoked on rusty importing these boards from asia and basically undercutting him on profit margin when he is the king of XPS foam...MrSteve said:
Bert Berger was capable of doing 4# compsands (balsa over EPS) and many of his riders thought that was too light. He had to add weight. This isn't 2005. You can get PU in the same or very similar density as XPS and completely skip the heat, adhesion and shear vulnerabilities.
Durability is a close second to performance for me. Im not a CT surfer, so i'll gladly take the very slight tradeoff in performance of alt materials over 60+ year old PU 'technology.' Materials have come a long way since that... But I'm not trying to start a PU vs. everything else thread.
Yeah... that's kinda bullshit from Rusty. I think they are trying to jump the gun on other companies using Extruded foam. Javier has the technology mastered and has been through all the struggles with Extruded foam, so I have a feeling Rusty is going to run into problems with these boards.Zander said:
I heard Mark Price talking about how a surfboard can only go so far in design, and then it comes down to materials. Which leads me to believe Firewire (or someone else) may start getting into Extruded foam. Obviously it looks like Rusty is already trying to take that next step, but who knows how it will work out for them. That whole process of building a board at XTR seems complicated. ...If anything I think Rusty's efforts might attract more attention to XTR because of them working with Extruded so long. Idk... i just hate to see Javier/XTR struggling to be in this line of business for so long, to then be undermined by someone else.
Lemme put it this way: If Javier is still using thermovents on the decks to offset the outgassing and avoiding dark airbrushes (particularly on the rails) and telling his customers to not let the boards get hotter than it takes to melt the wax and to keep their boards in white or silver board backs to control the heat issues then it's because of the XPS.jkb said:
And anyone who is trying to compete with Javier with XPS construction is going to have to figure out how to deal with those issues, one way or another.
Don't get me wrong - I like the foam and there's nothing in the way of maintenance and care that Javier suggests that I don't already do with all my boards as a matter of habit. None of it is in any way unreasonable or excessive.
But if someone is in the habit of leaving their board out on the sand all day or throwing their board into the back of their pickup without a bag then that's not a good plan for a board with an XPS core.
Well, I was doing boards with them both before and after they started using the vents. He even showed me his branding tool that he was using to do it with. I was among the first of the hydrovent users. Vents or no vents, the only XTR board that didn't eventually delam on either the deck and/or the rails was the board I did for my friend, who actually stuck to the care instructions and did what he was supposed to do. I stuck to the instructions and the boards i did for myself were okay, but my kids weren't so scrupulous. Their boards delamed after a year or so, and then one of them did the same thing to both of my personal boards when he took them to the beach for their friends to use. I repaired them and that was okay but by that time I was moving on to different designs.MrSteve said:
Anyways, that's 100% user error, not a mfg defect. The XPS is less forgiving when it comes to heat, so as long as people give their boards a little respect and don't treat them the way kids see the pros do it's all good.
this seems odd given that javier has a patent pending (maybe granted?) process for the thermovents...i wonder why rusty is trying to circumvent this and not just get javier to build these boards and charge accordingly?MrSteve said:
Rusty sucks!!! Lawyers are expensive and even though Javier has a patented on the technology, if Rusty starts using his thermovent technology, without his consent, he'll still have to spend money and hire an attorney to defend it. I hope Javier doesn't have to go that route to basically take back what he's already works so hard (and long) for.
If this is all true and i'm not misunderstanding i will totally boycott Rusty as a longtime supporter of XTR!
If this is all true and i'm not misunderstanding i will totally boycott Rusty as a longtime supporter of XTR!
It might pay to wait and see how Rusty actually does their boards.
I know one shaper who was rooting around for the higher density XPS to use that they use for freezer and road insulation - he was saying he thought it was more stable and had better bonding properties. He was thinking about glassing them with a single layer of 4oz. Apparently that stuff is extremely difficult to source on the West Coast.
I know one shaper who was rooting around for the higher density XPS to use that they use for freezer and road insulation - he was saying he thought it was more stable and had better bonding properties. He was thinking about glassing them with a single layer of 4oz. Apparently that stuff is extremely difficult to source on the West Coast.
Both Rusty and Javi run good shops. And the products look pretty different too. I'm sure there's a place for both in the market.
Patent cases are super hard to win, especially if your invention is possibly "obvious," like a device that pokes holes in a outgassing blank might be.
There is a world of difference between filing for a patent (which anyone can do for anything they think they've invented), and actually defending that patent (assuming the PTO even issues one) in court. It's essentially the difference between writing a letter to a bank asking for a million dollar loan and actually getting that check in your mailbox.
Patent cases are super hard to win, especially if your invention is possibly "obvious," like a device that pokes holes in a outgassing blank might be.
There is a world of difference between filing for a patent (which anyone can do for anything they think they've invented), and actually defending that patent (assuming the PTO even issues one) in court. It's essentially the difference between writing a letter to a bank asking for a million dollar loan and actually getting that check in your mailbox.