"Racism" is nothing but a distraction driven by politicians and the media

Ifallalot

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CharmingSophisticate said:
casa_mugrienta said:
GromsDad said:
casa_mugrienta said:
Real problem is the war on drugs and the fallout wreaks havoc in black communities. Blacks use drugs at a much lower rate than whites yet the percentage of drug arrests and convictions is much higher. Black communities are sitting ducks. The criminal justice system seeks easy targets who don't know their rights and can't afford a lawyer. And a cycle is perpetuated.

You can't argue with the facts. The only thing that will solve this is an end to the war on drugs.

This isn't about racism. But damn the media likes to denote the race of the officers and the deceased within hours of the shooting. Stirring up hate makes more news stories, hopefully more violence, and maybe a race war for the chance of the story of the decade. And politicians will never waste a crisis. Fuckn sickos.
I totally disagree with your first paragraph.....
What part? Rates of drug use? The fact drug arrests bar people from real employment? Do you think people spend money to hire a lawyer vs public defender just for the fun of it? That it's NOT easier to trample on the rights of people in low income communities?
When you look at the drug trade supply chain the vast majority of the hubs are in poor neighborhoods even if the salesmen aren't selling a whole lot to the locals (ie poor Blacks in your scenario).

I wonder if "progressives" ever take notice that the VAST majority of this bullshit didn't start until after this "Great Society" nonsense started making its way into government programs because racist "progressives" either think that the Black Man is too stupid to take care of himself and needs help from "kind, caring liberals or in LBJ's case, wants more Democrat voters and keeping them hooked on handouts keeps them coming back to the Democrat party.....kinda' like a crack or heroin dealer huh?
Historical ignorance
 

Autoprax

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When it comes to aiding the poor they need complimentary artifacts and not competitive artifacts.

Yes, I learned a new concept. But it gets to the heart of the matter.

You can buy opiates over the counter in spain and portugal and they don't have the addiction issues we have here.

Though I suspect this is propaganda so the DEA has a boogieman now that weed is not a good execuse for spending all that money on law enforcment.

Or it's not the drug so much and the living conditions in the USA that is driving people to pain killers.
 

GromsDad

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casa_mugrienta said:
Legalization of drugs is a cornerstone of libertarian thought.

reason.com/archives/2016/06/27/libertarians-for-drug-prohibition
No its not. Its just that those who favor legalization have latched onto libertarianism.
Libertarianism as I see it is individual freedom with responsibility. What the whacko drug legalization crowd is after is individual freedom with no responsibility. Your freedom ends where harm to others begins.
 

Kento

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GromsDad said:
casa_mugrienta said:
As for drugs, I'd get even harsher on those in the business but that is another thread entirely. There have been so many heroin ODs in this area that its mind blowing. I'd be all for the death penalty for anyone caught with a dealers quantity of this poison.
:rolleyes: Nice job spelling out why you aren't a libertarian.
Being libertarian and being for death for drug dealers are not opposing viewpoints. I don't give a sh!t what you do to yourself. Drink turpentine for all I care. The minute you start selling that sh!t to people, particularly minors, you are affecting others and need to be held accountable. Public hanging would be preferable.
There would be a lot of 1%ers caught up in that dragnet. And with the OxyContin peddling, please feel free to execute every single person involved in that, from sales reps to CEO and seize all assets, personal and corporate. It's funny how they have banned cigarette ads from TV but not pharmaceuticals. I would bet you the majority of heroin ODs in your neighborhood all started from pilfering the home medicine cabinet. It's pretty rife in my neighborhood too. Rich kids with boredom and access.

On another note, in regards to racism, ask yourself why the sentencing requirements are so different for coke vs. crack.
 

casa_mugrienta

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GromsDad said:
casa_mugrienta said:
Legalization of drugs is a cornerstone of libertarian thought.

reason.com/archives/2016/06/27/libertarians-for-drug-prohibition
No its not. Its just that those who favor legalization have latched onto libertarianism.
Umm, for the most part, no.
Drug legalization is about individualism and practicality. Individualism and practicality is what libertarianism is about. You have no right to tell me what I can and can't do unless I'm directly causing harm to another.

Overall it's a philosophy of self-ownership.

Libertarianism as I see it is individual freedom with responsibility.
Responsibility to you = government officials make decisions for consenting adults like myself about drug use. :roflmao: It's none of your business.

I suppose the government should be able to make decisions for you about the food you eat too? About self-destructive lifestyle choices like obesity?

What the whacko drug legalization crowd is after is individual freedom with no responsibility. Your freedom ends where harm to others begins.
OK, so let's shut down the tobacco companies and ban sales of alcohol too, right? That's just a start - next we'll move on to fast food restaurants that sell artery-clogging fare.


You're not a libertarian. I've read your posts, and this one spells it out perfect. Libertarian is just the latest identity those Repubelican voters disillusioned by the rise of Trump are attempting to claim.
 

Autoprax

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GromsDad said:
casa_mugrienta said:
Legalization of drugs is a cornerstone of libertarian thought.

reason.com/archives/2016/06/27/libertarians-for-drug-prohibition
. What the whacko drug legalization crowd is after is individual freedom with no responsibility. Your freedom ends where harm to others begins.

How do you get that decriminalization is about freedom without responsibility?

Where did you get this idea?

Have you looked at the data on decriminalization in Europe?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you haven't.

 

Clayster

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GromsDad said:
Meanwhile in Baltimore.....a year later the prosecutor who tried to make a name for herself and the media that sensationalized it are 0-4 in proving that the cops committed a crime. But hey, CNN's numbers were up. :shrug: http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2016/07/18/baltimore-officer-learns-fate-in-gray-case/

These prosecutors who indict only because the mob has taken to the street ought to be put on the street with the mob. It was obvious that at least some, if not all, of those indictments were BS right from the start.
 

StuAzole

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casa_mugrienta said:
GromsDad said:
casa_mugrienta said:
As for drugs, I'd get even harsher on those in the business but that is another thread entirely. There have been so many heroin ODs in this area that its mind blowing. I'd be all for the death penalty for anyone caught with a dealers quantity of this poison.
:rolleyes: Nice job spelling out why you aren't a libertarian.
Being libertarian and being for death for drug dealers are not opposing viewpoints. I don't give a sh!t what you do to yourself. Drink turpentine for all I care. The minute you start selling that sh!t to people, particularly minors, you are affecting others and need to be held accountable. Public hanging would be preferable.
Legalization of drugs is a cornerstone of libertarian thought.

reason.com/archives/2016/06/27/libertarians-for-drug-prohibition

All choices, not just drugs, affect others in some way. Good or bad.

And support for the death penalty is just plain stupid, unless you're OK with executing innocent people every once in a while.
what people think they are and what they actually are don't necessarily jive. For the life of me, I don't see how any "libertarian" would support the war on drugs.
 

StuAzole

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GromsDad is a libertarian? Why do I expect he won't be voting for his party's candidate in November?
 

Sharkbiscuit

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Can't say I agree about racism; I'd apply that to "voter fraud" and "selling baby parts" and "Benghazi" and "Gun Control" ages before racism, but I dig the bit on usage/conviction. C_M is barking up a good tree imho.

GromsDad is just barking.
 

StuAzole

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In fact, our nation's drug policies stem from racism in the first place - "negro fiends" were the poster children for criminalization of coke in the first place, Chinese creeps who were thought to be luring white women into opium dens in San Fransisco caused the opium ban, and "violent Mexicans" brought about the end of legal weed.
 

Ifallalot

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StuAzole said:
In fact, our nation's drug policies stem from racism in the first place - "negro fiends" were the poster children for criminalization of coke in the first place, Chinese creeps who were thought to be luring white women into opium dens in San Fransisco caused the opium ban, and "violent Mexicans" brought about the end of legal weed.
100% fact
 

trevorbc

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GromsDad said:
casa_mugrienta said:
Your freedom ends where harm to others begins.
So by that logic you agree with Michael Bloomberg banning big gulp soda in NYC right? Your consumption of large amounts of soda hurts your health, causes you to use more health care and drives up my costs. What about all of those uninsured people that go to Emergency Rooms when they get sick? Their lack of health insurance hurts me and my family. The government should make they have health care probably right? You heard it here first folks GromsDad supports Obamacare. I'm glad you've come around.
 

casa_mugrienta

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trevorbc said:
GromsDad said:
casa_mugrienta said:
Your freedom ends where harm to others begins.
So by that logic you agree with Michael Bloomberg banning big gulp soda in NYC right? Your consumption of large amounts of soda hurts your health, causes you to use more health care and drives up my costs. What about all of those uninsured people that go to Emergency Rooms when they get sick? Their lack of health insurance hurts me and my family. The government should make they have health care probably right? You heard it here first folks GromsDad supports Obamacare. I'm glad you've come around.
Can you remove my name from that quote please?
 

GDaddy

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Race Relations / Gallup Historical Polls


It looks to me like we were doing okay well into Pres. Obama's 2nd term. It also looks like blacks thought it was worse that most other people prior to the last year but now think it's a little better than most other people.



A drop-off from the 70s to the mid-40s in such a short period of time is pretty dramatic. But the latest number on that graph is from Jan 2015. That was 18 months ago. Although not charted on the graph, a couple of the questions in the article have more recent responses.

For instance, one of the questions was "How about the state of race relations?"

for the responses indicting to "somewhat satisfied" the range from 2001-2014 was 39%-45%. But it dropped to 24% in 2015 and 01/2016. As well, the "very satisfied" went from 8% and 10% prior to 2015 and dropped to 6% in 2015 and 3% in 2016.

That's a significant decline in "satisfied". Not an improvement.

For the responses indicating to "very disappointed" the range from 2001-2014 was 10% - 14%, the mode (most common) being 13% and 14%. But it jumped to 30% in 2015 and increased to 34% as of their 01/2016 poll.

The numbers for "somewhat disappointed" didn't change significantly mostly 26-28% before vs 30% and 32% in 2015 and 2016. But I would guess there's relatively little overlap in the composition of that group in 2016 vs the periods prior to 2015. It's apparent that lots of people moved in from "somewhat satisfied" and lots of people moved out to one of the "dissatisfied" categories.

Regardless of the reasons why, it's apparent that these conditions have gotten much worse just in the last 2-3 years, not better. Call it a success or progress if you want, but that's not an assertion that the poll numbers support.






 

Gnudz

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GromsDad said:
Gnudz said:
GromsDad said:
Meanwhile in Baltimore.....a year later the prosecutor who tried to make a name for herself and the media that sensationalized it are 0-4 in proving that the cops committed a crime. But hey, CNN's numbers were up. :shrug: http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2016/07/18/baltimore-officer-learns-fate-in-gray-case/
From Wikipedia:

Lieutenant Brian W. Rice, age 41, white, is a 17-year-veteran of the force.[23][24] Rice, who was promoted to lieutenant in 2011, is the highest-ranking officer charged in relation to Gray's death.[26] The Guardian reported that, in 2012, Rice had allegedly threatened to kill himself and the husband of his former partner. He had been hospitalized, reportedly, for a mental health evaluation and given an administrative suspension. The consequences of this threat included twice having his guns confiscated, and a restraining order on behalf of the husband of his former partner.[27] According to a police report obtained by The Guardian, Rice had also misused his position to order the arrest of his ex-girlfriend's husband as part of a personal dispute that took place two weeks before the incident.[28]
Sounds like a great guy.
What part of NOT GUILTY didn't you grasp?
You're the one who doesn't grasp it what NOT GUILTY means.

NOT GUILTY means NO ONE IS HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

And it happens all the time when the victim is a black man.
 

Kento

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GromsDad said:
Gnudz said:
GromsDad said:
Meanwhile in Baltimore.....a year later the prosecutor who tried to make a name for herself and the media that sensationalized it are 0-4 in proving that the cops committed a crime. But hey, CNN's numbers were up. :shrug: http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2016/07/18/baltimore-officer-learns-fate-in-gray-case/
From Wikipedia:

Lieutenant Brian W. Rice, age 41, white, is a 17-year-veteran of the force.[23][24] Rice, who was promoted to lieutenant in 2011, is the highest-ranking officer charged in relation to Gray's death.[26] The Guardian reported that, in 2012, Rice had allegedly threatened to kill himself and the husband of his former partner. He had been hospitalized, reportedly, for a mental health evaluation and given an administrative suspension. The consequences of this threat included twice having his guns confiscated, and a restraining order on behalf of the husband of his former partner.[27] According to a police report obtained by The Guardian, Rice had also misused his position to order the arrest of his ex-girlfriend's husband as part of a personal dispute that took place two weeks before the incident.[28]
Sounds like a great guy.
What part of NOT GUILTY didn't you grasp?
You told that to Fred Goldman after the OJ trial too, didn't you?


Did his mustache quiver?
 

GDaddy

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Lots of criminals get off for lack of evidence or lack of even being identified. Blacks most of all, in terms of their representation in the population. Our legal system puts the burden of proof on the state. A tie always goes to the runner.

In the Freddie Gray cases the state has their suspects. What they don't have is the evidence it takes to prove a crime was committed. Counting all their various allegations, the state is now 0-24. Meaning, they can't even prove any of the lesser charges.

 

Gnudz

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GDaddy said:
Lots of criminals get off for lack of evidence or lack of even being identified. Blacks most of all, in terms of their representation in the population. Our legal system puts the burden of proof on the state. A tie always goes to the runner.

In the Freddie Gray cases the state has their suspects. What they don't have is the evidence it takes to prove a crime was committed. Counting all their various allegations, the state is now 0-24. Meaning, they can't even prove any of the lesser charges.
Yet Freddie Gray died as a result of injuries he suffered while in police custody, and no one is being held accountable.

If so many black people are being freed due to lack of evidence, one has to ask: Why are so many black people being arrested without any evidence in the first place?
 

GDaddy

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A - There's "no evidence for an arrest" and then there's "insufficient evidence for a conviction". I'm sure you can understand the point that the two are not synonymous. Not every arrest SHOULD result in a conviction when the burden of evidence for both is different.

B - Lots of the crooks never even get arrested for lack of evidence, despite what the cops think they know of them. I can't even tell you how many assholes I had to let go for lack of evidence to support an arrest. I CAN tell you that I never made an arrest that was found - upon review by the DA office - to have lacked probable cause.

C - The people who end up in prisons are the ones who have gone through the judicial system. Many times they have agreed to plea bargain for lesser offenses, so they're not even serving the sentence for what they actually did.

D - Even so, blacks as a group really do get convicted of way more violent crime against others relative to their representation in the population - by which I am not referring to the oh-so-unfair drug laws.

E - The rates of black convictions for crimes of violence (not drug crimes) are actually higher than the rates of blacks being shot by police for any reason.

FBI crime statistics

U.S. census info on demographics in the U.S.

"The Guardian" count of police shootings, which lists a larger number of such shootings than the less complete counts from other sources.