Psyops by Wealthy Conservatives

obslop

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Feb 4, 2002
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Trillions for the some of the largest corporations in the world and more tax cuts for the richest of the rich; pocket change for the working cogs.

They need bodies in the factories to make money. Get moving.

 

Ifallalot

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Dec 17, 2008
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Trillions for the some of the largest corporations in the world and more tax cuts for the richest of the rich; pocket change for the working cogs.

They need bodies in the factories to make money. Get moving.

So, just like Occupy, Inauguration Sky Screaming, and the Women's March?

That's how things work in this country. The wealthy pull the puppet strings of which ever side they support, nothing changes for the people, and they get more money
 

obslop

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Feb 4, 2002
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maybe it'll all pan out; maybe the response to the virus was an overreaction in some areas.

the push to reopen quickly though is an experiment with human lives on the line.

rest assured that the people that are funding these protests sure as hell are not going to be rubbing elbows with their employees in the businesses they own.
 

Autoprax

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Jan 24, 2011
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What it should be is a controlled burn, with the minimum harm.

It seems like the extremes are running the show as usual.
 

Ifallalot

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Dec 17, 2008
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maybe it'll all pan out; maybe the response to the virus was an overreaction in some areas.

the push to reopen quickly though is an experiment with human lives on the line.

rest assured that the people that are funding these protests sure as hell are not going to be rubbing elbows with their employees in the businesses they own.
Just as many, if not more human lives are on the line the longer we experiment with a close economy and the repercussions of it afterward
 
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obslop

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Just as many, if not more human lives are on the line the longer we experiment with a close economy and the repercussions of it afterward
nah. pay people to stay at home until America gets its act together.

if we can throw trillions at wall street in 2008 and once again to corporate America in 2020 because they cannot manage risk and/or have sufficient liquidity to remain a viable business then we can send money to regular people that are being asked to choose between going bankrupt and returning to an unsafe work environment.

you could probably cover most if not all of the cost of those payments to regular folks by raising corporate taxes and closing loopholes on taxes for the ultra wealthy

god forbid shareholders and millionaire CEOs get a haircut - oh the horror.
 

Ifallalot

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Dec 17, 2008
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nah. pay people to stay at home until America gets its act together.

if we can throw trillions at wall street in 2008 and once again to corporate America in 2020 because they cannot manage risk and/or have sufficient liquidity to remain a viable business then we can send money to regular people that are being asked to choose between going bankrupt and returning to an unsafe work environment.

you could probably cover most if not all of the cost of those payments to regular folks by raising corporate taxes and closing loopholes on taxes for the ultra wealthy

god forbid shareholders and millionaire CEOs get a haircut - oh the horror.
In theory, I agree with you

But aren't you scare of all this fake money blowing up in our faces at some point? When we could avoid it by letting people work and sacrificing a tiny amount of lives?
 

obslop

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In theory, I agree with you

But aren't you scare of all this fake money blowing up in our faces at some point? When we could avoid it by letting people work and sacrificing a tiny amount of lives?
the money printer go brrr ship has sailed.

deflation is in control for now and at some point we may get inflation but there is nothing anyone can do about that now.

it's time for America to take care of its citizens and tell the corporations that have been running things to fook off.

how does it even make sense for individual tax receipts to increase by 6% while tax receipts from corporations drop by 30% and this is while the economy was expanding. complete utter bullshit IMO.

Screen Shot 2020-05-02 at 1.35.06 PM.png
 

Billy Ocean

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Jan 7, 2017
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So, just like Occupy, Inauguration Sky Screaming, and the Women's March?

That's how things work in this country. The wealthy pull the puppet strings of which ever side they support, nothing changes for the people, and they get more money
the only way bottom tier labor makes more money long term is by restricting labor supply

so if you actually care about poor Americans, you support enforcing immigration law
 
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Billy Ocean

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nah. pay people to stay at home until America gets its act together.

if we can throw trillions at wall street in 2008 and once again to corporate America in 2020 because they cannot manage risk and/or have sufficient liquidity to remain a viable business then we can send money to regular people that are being asked to choose between going bankrupt and returning to an unsafe work environment.

you could probably cover most if not all of the cost of those payments to regular folks by raising corporate taxes and closing loopholes on taxes for the ultra wealthy

god forbid shareholders and millionaire CEOs get a haircut - oh the horror.
loans vs grants

be serious
 

Billy Ocean

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airlines got both with the money much heavier on the grant side
airlines are strategically important

look, I’m not saying hang the working class out to dry

but trying to equate lender of last resort activity by fed, where they are taking collateral, is not the same as just issuing checks to average joes

lt is different from a risk perspective and from an administrative perspective

At the end of the day, it is feasible to do financial engineering to save large institutions

it’s not feasible down the food chain, as we’re seeing with attempts to do this with small business loans

lts even less feasible at the individual household level
 

obslop

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airlines are strategically important

look, I’m not saying hang the working class out to dry

but trying to equate lender of last resort activity by fed, where they are taking collateral, is not the same as just issuing checks to average joes

lt is different from a risk perspective and from an administrative perspective

At the end of the day, it is feasible to do financial engineering to save large institutions

it’s not feasible down the food chain, as we’re seeing with attempts to do this with small business loans

lts even less feasible at the individual household level
so do some of each. US consumer is 70% of GDP.

and BTW there's no reason all of these airlines need to survive. below headline was from March 2019.

Screen Shot 2020-05-02 at 4.46.12 PM.png
 

the janitor

Tom Curren status
Mar 28, 2003
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north of the bridge
airlines are strategically important

look, I’m not saying hang the working class out to dry

but trying to equate lender of last resort activity by fed, where they are taking collateral, is not the same as just issuing checks to average joes

lt is different from a risk perspective and from an administrative perspective

At the end of the day, it is feasible to do financial engineering to save large institutions

it’s not feasible down the food chain, as we’re seeing with attempts to do this with small business loans

lts even less feasible at the individual household level
Why are they strategic? The manufacturers sure, I'd agree with that. But is JetBlue or United Strategic?

"Airlines will keep at least 90% of workers employed through September, they will return one-third of the funds they receive, suspend stock buybacks and dividends, and limit executive pay."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliesachmechi/2020/04/17/airlines-are-being-bailed-out-again-heres-what-economists-think-will-happen-next/#2ca1373e356f

That doesn't look like lender of last resort terms or taking collateral to me, but perhaps I've missed something?

That looks more like - here's a couple of container ship loads of cash, please give us some of it back someday, please stop doing buybacks until the press get outraged by something else and don't fire anyone until September, but then get it done before the holidays or a second wave hits.

I'd prefer to see the exec and board bonuses for at least the last year get clawed back as a condition of getting any $$. Forfeiture of bonuses and stock vesting for all of 2020. 50% reduction in exec and board pay.

For collateral we could start with one kidney for anyone with a VP title on up.
 
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Billy Ocean

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Why are they strategic? The manufacturers sure, I'd agree with that. But is JetBlue or United Strategic?

"Airlines will keep at least 90% of workers employed through September, they will return one-third of the funds they receive, suspend stock buybacks and dividends, and limit executive pay."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliesachmechi/2020/04/17/airlines-are-being-bailed-out-again-heres-what-economists-think-will-happen-next/#2ca1373e356f

That doesn't look like lender of last resort terms or taking collateral to me, but perhaps I've missed something?

That looks more like - here's a couple of container ship loads of cash, please give us some of it back someday, please stop doing buybacks until the press get outraged by something else and don't fire anyone until September, but then get it done before the holidays or a second wave hits.

I'd prefer to see the exec and board bonuses for at least the last year get clawed back as a condition of getting any $$. Forfeiture of bonuses and stock vesting for all of 2020. 50% reduction in exec and board pay.

For collateral we could start with one kidney for anyone with a VP title on up.
I’m sure many of the loan terms are favorable to the companies

but they’re still loans

the govt isn’t going to issue loans to every household and even if they did they could never expect them to be paid back

the overall point is you can do this type of thing for a short period to keep a company as a going concern

you can’t do this for an entire country that depends on wages

as for why airlines are strategic

we have a huge country

the govt isn’t prepared to take over passenger air travel for the entire nation if all of the airlines fail
 

mundus

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Feb 26, 2018
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I’m sure many of the loan terms are favorable to the companies

but they’re still loans

the govt isn’t going to issue loans to every household and even if they did they could never expect them to be paid back

the overall point is you can do this type of thing for a short period to keep a company as a going concern

you can’t do this for an entire country that depends on wages

as for why airlines are strategic

we have a huge country

the govt isn’t prepared to take over passenger air travel for the entire nation if all of the airlines fail
Anytime this issue comes up you turn into a neolib.
 

Billy Ocean

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Anytime this issue comes up you turn into a neolib.
It’s because I think people oversimplify bailouts based on a desire to prove the govt is out to screw the little guy

it’s not that simple

yes, the govt is corrupt, but as a matter of fact it is just easier to bail out large institutions compared to the entire population

you can bail out the population for a little while but you aren’t going to give average Joe a 5 yr term loan