Polar ice melt

elcalvo

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Mar 16, 2004
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http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/03/goddard_polar_ice/

Are the ice caps melting?
By Steven Goddard
Published Thursday 3rd July 2008 15:46 GMT
PBEM The headlines last week brought us terrifying news: The North Pole will be ice-free this summer "for the first time in human history," wrote (http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/exclusive-no-ice-at-the-north-pole-855406.html) Steve Connor in The Independent. Or so the experts at the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) in Boulder, Colorado predict. This sounds very frightening, so let's look at the facts about polar sea ice.

As usual, there are a couple of huge problems with the reports.

Firstly, the story is neither alarming nor unique.

In the August 29, 2000 edition of the New York Times, the same NSIDC expert, Mark Serreze, said (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F00E3DD1E31F93AA1575BC0A9669C8B63):

"There's nothing to be necessarily alarmed about. There's been open water at the pole before. We have no clear evidence at this point that this is related to global climate change."

During the summer of 2000 there was "a large body of ice-free water about 10 miles long and 3 miles wide near the pole". Also in 2000, Dr Claire Parkinson at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center was quoted as saying: "The fact of having no ice at the pole is not so stunning."


Submarines regularly surface (http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server?show=nav.2546&outputFormat=print) at the North Pole

Secondly, the likelihood of the North Pole being ice free this summer is actually quite slim. There are only a few weeks left where the sun is high enough to melt ice at the North Pole. The sun is less than 23 degrees above the horizon, and by mid-August will be less than 15 degrees above it. Temperatures in Greenland have been cold this summer, and winds are not favorable for a repeat. Currently, there is about one million km2 more ice than there was on this date last summer.

So what is really going on at the poles?

The Tipping Point that wouldn't tip
Satellite records have been kept for polar sea ice over the last thirty years by the University Of Illinois. In 2007 2008, two very different records were set. The Arctic broke the previous record for the least sea ice area ever recorded, while the Antarctic broke the record for the most sea ice area ever recorded. Summed up over the entire earth, polar ice has remained constant. As seen below, there has been no net gain or loss of polar sea ice since records began.

(http://regmedia.co.uk/2008/07/03/ice_change_large.jpg)

Click to enlarge

Last week, Dr James Hansen from NASA spoke about how CO2 is affecting the polar ice caps.

"We see a tipping point occurring right before our eyes... The Arctic is the first tipping point and it's occurring exactly the way we said it would," he said.

Well, not exactly.

Hansen is only telling half the story. In the 1980s the same Dr Hansen wrote a paper titled Climate Sensitivity to Increasing Greenhouse Gases, in which he explained how CO2 causes "polar amplification." He predicted nearly symmetrical warming at both poles. As shown in Figure 2-2 from the article, Hansen calculated that both the Arctic and Antarctic would warm by 5-6 degrees Centigrade. His predictions were largely incorrect, as most of Antarctica has cooled and sea ice has rapidly expanded. The evidence does not support the theory.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 2004, Dr Hansen returned to the subject. This time, he explained (pdf) (http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2004/2004_Hansen_Nazarenko.pdf) that most of Arctic warming and melting is due to dirty snow from soot, not CO2.

"Soot snow/ice albedo climate forcing is not included in Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change evaluations. This forcing is unusually effective, causing twice as much global warming as a CO2 forcing of the same magnitude," he wrote.

Once the snow dirties, it absorbs sunlight, warms, and quickly melts. Then the land and air above warms, causing higher temperature readings. This affects the Arctic more than the Antarctic simply because there aren't many people living near the Antarctic. The Arctic is polluted by European cities and oil fields in Siberia - where gas flaring generates huge amounts of soot.

In fact, scientists at the University of California have estimated that up to 94 per cent of Arctic melt (http://www.physorg.com/news100354399.html) is due to dirty snow.

In other words, then, Antarctic temperatures and ice are going the opposite direction of what Dr. Hansen predicted, and most of the Arctic warming is due to soot, not CO2. His own research directly contradicts his recent high-profile statements about the Arctic and CO2.

Dr Hansen also talks frequently about the unprecedented temperature rise in the Arctic, yet his own temperature records show that much of the Arctic (including Greenland) was warmer from 1920-1940 than now. The NASA graph below from Nuuk, Greenland is typical of long term records of the region.

Nuuk, Greenland is a key location because it is located in the southwest portion of the island and is not far from the mouth of the Jakobshavn Glacier - the most rapidly moving glacier in the world and a poster child for global warming campaigners. It is also the largest city and capital of Greenland, located just south of the Arctic Circle. NASA literature from the last few years focuses heavily on anomalous melt in southwest Greenland as a concern for sea level rise.


Temperature anamoly at Nuuk

During the ice age scare in the 1970s the Arctic cooled dramatically, and is only now returning to temperatures comparable to sixty years ago. Most of the other Arctic locations with long-term records show similar trends. Long-term NASA temperature records in the Arctic are very sparse, but most show a pattern similar to Nuuk. Most of the other Arctic locations with long-term records show similar trends.

Ostrov (http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/gistemp_station.py?id=222206740006&data_set=1&num_neighbors=1), Hatanga (http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/gistemp_station.py?id=222208910006&data_set=1&num_neighbors=1), Gmo (http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/gistemp_station.py?id=222202920005&data_set=1&num_neighbors=1), Bodo Vi (http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/gistemp_station.py?id=634011520003&data_set=1&num_neighbors=1), and Reykjavik (http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/gistemp_station.py?id=620040300000&data_set=1&num_neighbors=1=1) are good examples.

Another pollution problem reported by NASA is known as the Arctic Haze (http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/MediaAlerts/2006/2006051022278.html). This is a human-generated brown cloud which hovers over the Arctic and traps heat. Additionally, we know that the summer of 2007 had unusually low cloud cover in the Arctic (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arm.gov%2Fscience%2Fresearch%2Fpdf%2FR00143.pdf&ei=5YhnSKOTLp2qiAGSwpCDCw&usg=AFQjCNHV8GPsFFWEJrsfGwZJU5mKeD5w1A&sig2=VUvm8kJts2R_wotunDCGPw), which contributed to the unusual melt. But probably the most important factor in the anomalous "melt" was a spate of strong winds (http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/quikscat-20071001.html) which blew all summer up the Bering Strait, across the pole and out into the warm waters of the North Atlantic. This compressed the sea ice towards Greenland and revealed a large area of open water north of Siberia and Alaska.


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But in 2008 we are not seeing that. The winds and temperatures in the Arctic are quite different, and as of today there is more ice than normal (http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/recent365.anom.region.9.html) around Siberia. The Arctic melt season ends in about seven weeks because the sun will get too low. As of June 26 (http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/ARCHIVE/20080626.jpg), there is no indication that the North Pole is in danger of melting.

The BBC's Richard Black wrote an article last week claiming that Arctic Ice is melting "even faster than last year." Looking at the Cryosphere Today map (http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/print.sh?fm=06&fd=30&fy=2007&sm=06&sd=30&sy=2008), it is abundantly clear that ice is melting more slowly than last year. By the end of June, 2007 the Hudson Bay was essentially ice-free. This year it is close to normal, with cold temperatures predicted for most of the rest of the short melt season. Someone is apparently having trouble reading maps at either the BBC and/or NSIDC.

Northwest Passage?
Last summer, the headlines read "First ever traversal of the Northwest Passage". This sounds very dramatic, except that it is entirely incorrect. As the BBC reported: "In 1905, Norwegian explorer Roald Amundsen became the first person to successfully navigate the Northwest Passage, in a wooden sailboat." The Northwest Passage has been navigated at least one hundred times (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6999078.stm) over the last century.

According to official US Weather Bureau records (pdf) (http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/050/mwr-050-11-0589a.pdf) from 1922, there was open sailing very close to the North Pole that year. Anthony Watts unearthed (http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/you-ask-i-provide-november-2nd-1922-arctic-ocean-getting-warm-seals-vanish-and-icebergs-melt/) this quote from the Weather Bureau:

"In fact, so little ice has never before been noted. The expedition all but established a record, sailing as far north as 81 degrees in ice-free water.

We must check back in seven weeks to see if the North Pole is ice-free. My money is on the experts being wrong - again. As the great physicist Dr Richard Feynman said, "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts." ®
 

geedee

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What suit contains the race card? I'm playing strip poker with Aretha Franklin and I want to go all in. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/facelick.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
 

Surfdog

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Here's todays Arctic ice coverage:

(the pics are too big to post here without messing up the page)

2008: http://140.90.47.40/ice_image21/D08185.NHEIMSK.GIF


Same day in 2007:

http://manati.orbit.nesdis.noaa.gov/ice_image21/2007/D07185.NHEIMSK.GIF

Do you see any sign of open ocean at the North Pole? In fact there are many areas with more ice this time of year than last. Granted, there are a few places with less ice than last year, but overall, the total Arctic ice coverage is higher this year.

But, PNW fartcatcher is still using the same tired old diversions from his Harry Potter, Star Wars and Star Trek collections. Is PNW actually a trekkie in disquise?

Ya, I had to re-post the link, pics are WAY too big. But, thats what she said <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
 

geedee

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I can't see it. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


Maybe if you posted a bigger picture. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/computer.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
 

elcalvo

Michael Peterson status
Mar 16, 2004
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Just a general observation:

Human discourse is enhanced by the free interchange of ideas. Opposing points of view can be discussed rationaly, considering the evidence at hand in a logical, civil manner.
If anyone does not wish to participate in said rational, logical and civil discussion, Persistent, Nonsensical Whining does nothing to convince anyone that their particular point of view has merit.

Let me repeat for emphasis:

P ersistant
N onsensical
W hining
contributes nothing of value to anyone. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
 

geedee

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World War II ruined surfing. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/computer.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
 

Surfdog

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Apr 22, 2001
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Surfdog posts: Do you see any sign of open ocean at the North Pole [in this NOAA data] ?
Thanks, Surfdog, for the outstanding link to NOAA's page on sea ice.

Gosh, we wouldn't want to do any cherry-picking, would we?

`Cuz that might lead to the appearance of moronic political bias!

So here's all the NOAA data:



... these curves sure make a scientist say ... yikes ...

... when are those ice-loss curves going to flatten out?

... what would if mean for the planet, if present ice-loss rates accelerated?

That's why the sober scientists at NOAA are worried ...

... because they've got the discipline to look at all the data ...

... and the guts to face up to tough questions and tougher answers.

... which is why far-rightie team moron "fears them and smears them".

You "team moron" folks don't much like scientists *or* people of color, do you? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />

Fortunately, Obama and McCain are *both* on-record as recognizing that global warming is real ... and serious.

I dunno *who* "team moron" will vote for ... gotta be a white guy ... gotta be a "denier" ...



... maybe Jim Inhofe? Is he McCain's future VP?
How is showing actual images of the current Arctic ice coverage "cherry picking" data? The claim was "a ice free North Pole in summer 2008".

How do we know how reliable that charts data is prior to 1960? We did not have satellites to observe every square mile of the Arctic. Are you saying we had people walking the entire Arctic ocean in summer AND winter chaecking for coverage. Or,(as is more likely) these are more "models" of what was supposed to have happened?.

Even still, we should be seeing substantial ocean level rise if Arctic, Antarctic and land based ice (i.e; Greenland, Antartica, etc;) are melting at the rates/levels shown on the charts above. But where is it?

I will take your bet on ocean level rise of 1-3/4 inches (45 mm) in the next 20 years. It will be a fraction of that amount at best.

But you still haven't reasoned where Al Gore's claims of 20-30 FEET of ocean level rise in the next 30-50 years are supposed to come from. When even the IPCC is claiming only 3 feet in 100 years on the high end (Which is still WAY higher than what is now happening and any likelyhood for the future).

So, who's right? Who do you put your faith in? Al Gore, the IPCC, or some other lord of the Green Church?

Edit to add this excerpt from PNW's link above.........

"However, closer inspection reveals a disturbing discrepancy: models show impacts in winter and observations show ice retreat in summer. As we expect from basic physical reasoning, the largest effects of greenhouse warming should be seen in the absence of solar radiation when thermal infrared radiation dominates the surface energy balance, i.e. in winter. The calculations by Vinnikov et al. (1999) and Manabe et al. (1992) indeed show the largest sea ice signal in winter. An explanation of this summer/winter discrepancy has not been offered so far. The absence and presence of sea ice, and its thickness, depend on very small differences between large fluxes of energy. Minor changes of the assumptions about surface albedo, snow cover, cloudiness and cloud radiative properties, ocean heat flux, and other factors, may have large effects on the computed ice cover and require a model precision that remains to be attained."

Sounds like totally undisputable, dependable and consensus building/confirming data to me. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
 

blakestah

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The enduring nadir in the sunspot cycle is going to freeze us all out, I am telling you!
 

geedee

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GeeDee sez: ... World War II ruined surfing. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/computer.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
You know what's worse than far-rightie "team moron"?

"Team irony". Snarky, hypocritical, reflexively moronic ... and useless.

A touch of irony? That's good ... even great. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/applause2.gif" alt="" />

... your whole life is ironic? That's pathetic.

... it amounts to "I'm only pretending to be a moron!" <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />

GeeDee, you're the "team irony" leader on the erBB ...

... give us a mocking post! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />
It's like a black fly in your chardonnay. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/beer.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/drunk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
 

swegin

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"A free ride, when you already paid." What's that, a refund? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" />