Poast your strenf training program

PRCD

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Feb 25, 2020
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So for my last four surf sessions my low back has been cramping from the get go. It concerns me because it feels just like how my major incident 3 years ago started, the one that had me sidelined for 6+ months. I keep telling myself they are just benign nerve signals and nothing is really happening...

But at the same time I've made this observation- when I do my barbell work, overhead presses ping the exact same area, minor little pain spasms in the right side of my lumbar. Doesn't happen when I do the other lifts, even, for example, when I'm deadlifting a lot more weight. It seems the compression on my spine should be greater deadlifting rather than over head pressing. There is a big difference at the shoulder but on the spine?
That's nothing - probably your glutes, definitely nothing to worry about.
 

Chocki

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Feb 18, 2007
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Still want to know from the strength maestros if spinal/lumbar loading is significantly different between OHP and DL?
Broad question. During the 2nd phase of an ohp, force primarily = compression vs dL and shearing? Initial phase forces are as similar as what/how your lifting?

Spine Mechanics For Lifters
 
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Chocki

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My aunt does CrossFit and now is a certified expert and I can ask her if you want.
Hahah. Just like the sun shining on a dog’s anus, CrossFit!!! produces some legit info once in a while. The author’s credentials above and beyond CrossFit!!! check out.

If your Aunt is hot and/or has any epic fail vids of her CrossFitting!!! please feel free to share.
 

One-Off

Tom Curren status
Jul 28, 2005
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Surfed little waves today. A lot of tight crouching into little tubes. Back is now very sore. According to the article Chocki posted when your crouched over your muscles stop working and the ligaments take over.

I think I have to try the Jefferson lifts. I can't think of any other exercise off the top of my head that is strengthening the back in (extreme) flexion. If anyone knows of any others please share.
 

Chocki

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Surfed little waves today. A lot of tight crouching into little tubes. Back is now very sore. According to the article Chocki posted when your crouched over your muscles stop working and the ligaments take over.

I think I have to try the Jefferson lifts. I can't think of any other exercise off the top of my head that is strengthening the back in (extreme) flexion. If anyone knows of any others please share.
Hanging knee/leg raises ?
 

One-Off

Tom Curren status
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Hanging knee/leg raises ?
Seems that would target the abdominals and flexors more than the back.

If you think about the back muscles, they are almost always trained in a position of either extended or neutral spine- think supermans, good mornings, back hyperextensions on a bench, deadifts. We are working the muscles in a limited range of motion. To protect your back while crouched in a tube, it seems you would want to load the muscles starting in a flexed position.
 

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
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Surfed little waves today. A lot of tight crouching into little tubes. Back is now very sore. According to the article Chocki posted when your crouched over your muscles stop working and the ligaments take over.

I think I have to try the Jefferson lifts. I can't think of any other exercise off the top of my head that is strengthening the back in (extreme) flexion. If anyone knows of any others please share.
I do these, it does not put the back in extreme flexion, it puts a loaded stretch on the hamstrings and I get a nice feeling of stretch in the flat region just above the glutes and below the top of the pelvis. I suppose someone with really short tight hamstrings and a tight rear pelvis region (whatever that is called) would end up flexing their back to compensate, but that sounds risky to me.
 

One-Off

Tom Curren status
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I do these, it does not put the back in extreme flexion, it puts a loaded stretch on the hamstrings and I get a nice feeling of stretch in the flat region just above the glutes and below the top of the pelvis. I suppose someone with really short tight hamstrings and a tight rear pelvis region (whatever that is called) would end up flexing their back to compensate, but that sounds risky to me.
Do you use weights? I’ve read a lot of caveats about them. They say to start with body weight. I did a few and yes they stretch hamstrings, and no, not extreme flexion. But they do call on you to engage the lower back muscles in a concentric contraction from a fexed position. That seems the target if you are trying to develop some extra strength/security for surfing/crouching. While doing them I also felt that right side of the lumbar start to cramp. I have to preceed with a bit of caution.
Dont load your spine its not designed for loading and lift with your knees.
Tell that to people who deadlift 500 pounds. Where did you even hear that? Dr. Von Meister would eviscerate you for saying that.
 

Chocki

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Seems that would target the abdominals and flexors more than the back.

If you think about the back muscles, they are almost always trained in a position of either extended or neutral spine- think supermans, good mornings, back hyperextensions on a bench, deadifts. We are working the muscles in a limited range of motion. To protect your back while crouched in a tube, it seems you would want to load the muscles starting in a flexed position.
 

averagejoe

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www.mardawg.com
Do you use weights? I’ve read a lot of caveats about them. They say to start with body weight. I did a few and yes they stretch hamstrings, and no, not extreme flexion. But they do call on you to engage the lower back muscles in a concentric contraction from a fexed position. That seems the target if you are trying to develop some extra strength/security for surfing/crouching. While doing them I also felt that right side of the lumbar start to cramp. I have to preceed with a bit of caution.


Tell that to people who deadlift 500 pounds. Where did you even hear that? Dr. Von Meister would eviscerate you for saying that.
You probably already know this stuff, but the McGill Three can be pretty helpful. And this guy’s website in general is pretty helpful

https://squatuniversity.com/2018/06/21/the-mcgill-big-3-for-core-stability/
 

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
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Do you use weights? I’ve read a lot of caveats about them. They say to start with body weight. I did a few and yes they stretch hamstrings, and no, not extreme flexion. But they do call on you to engage the lower back muscles in a concentric contraction from a fexed position. That seems the target if you are trying to develop some extra strength/security for surfing/crouching. While doing them I also felt that right side of the lumbar start to cramp. I have to preceed with a bit of caution.


Tell that to people who deadlift 500 pounds. Where did you even hear that? Dr. Von Meister would eviscerate you for saying that.
Yes, if I am at home 3kg - It feels enough and I am not some macho Von Meister strongman trying to achieve personal goals with lifting or stretching - just trying to maintain myself for the fun activities. If I have just finished a sesh at the skatepark then I will just use bodyweight and raise myself up into the upright position keeping legs straight - fully locked straight.

I wish I had your talent to find little tubes, I get tubed about once a year and by accident not judgement :D I do crouch at times though. So I would imagine you would be able to do the asian squat both heels firmly on the ground quite easily? This doesn't require long hamstrings, but it does seem to put a stretch on that rear upper pelvis area I mentioned, so maybe the Jefferson curl would be good for little tubes - I am of course not qualified to know whether it suits you or not!
 

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
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Still want to know from the strength maestros if spinal/lumbar loading is significantly different between OHP and DL?
I'm not a strength maestro, I'm the erBB weakling :D Chocki's response to your question is correct OHP mainly compressive, DL more shearing (until the upright position reached). My personal opinion based on what I felt is that deadlift is safer - tends to encourage the core to tense on a neutrally flexed spine - OHP (at least with me) can encourage the back to arch if I'm not careful and this I think would place uneven compression on the discs.
 

VonMeister

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JOE BIDENS RAPE FINGER
I'm not a strength maestro, I'm the erBB weakling :D Chocki's response to your question is correct OHP mainly compressive, DL more shearing (until the upright position reached). My personal opinion based on what I felt is that deadlift is safer - tends to encourage the core to tense on a neutrally flexed spine - OHP (at least with me) can encourage the back to arch if I'm not careful and this I think would place uneven compression on the discs.
The chance of you pressing enough weight over your head to cause an unsafe environment for your back is close to zero. If it's that heavy you will probably hurt something else on the way up. Can OHP be irritating to the lower back....sure but that just means you took things to far. The beauty of the OHP is..if done correctly is that it will provide the exact amount of core muscle stimulation you need to be strong enough to brace for the weight you are lifting. If you lift too heavy or do too many repetitions then that's on you...not the OHP. If your recovering from some pain or injury do what's tolerable and don't get too aggressive.

The OHP is a good training exercise when done right. I haven't regularly done them as normal training in about 6 months because I get all the stimulation I need from the OHP other ways. I do however use them as part of ab training...which would be something like 5 sets of 5 OHP at RPE6-8 followed by AB flexing exercise like hanging or lying crunches, ab wheel roll outs, toes to bar etc then followed by a plank variation.

I've always said here, if you want a six pack be able to press your body weight over your head....I should have added "but that doesn't mean you should do that".
 
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VonMeister

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Do you use weights? I’ve read a lot of caveats about them. They say to start with body weight. I did a few and yes they stretch hamstrings, and no, not extreme flexion. But they do call on you to engage the lower back muscles in a concentric contraction from a fexed position. That seems the target if you are trying to develop some extra strength/security for surfing/crouching. While doing them I also felt that right side of the lumbar start to cramp. I have to preceed with a bit of caution.


Tell that to people who deadlift 500 pounds. Where did you even hear that? Dr. Von Meister would eviscerate you for saying that.
If your back hurts when you are crouching you are relaxing your abs and losing core stability. It's pretty common in that position to expand your abdomen for bracing rather than flexing it.