Oprah will run.

[everysurfer]

[.

Neither the housing market or the stock market had anything to do with Obama.

Really? Nothing? Who sets interest rates? Who appoints the Fed Chairperson? What does the bond rate have to do with the stock market. What does the cost of war do to employment, and scarcity ?

The President isn't all powerful, but I'd say they have a weighty input.

Don't forget the the Federal Reserve System considers itself "an independent central bank because its monetary policy decisions do not have to be approved by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branches of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by the Congress, and the terms of the members of the Board of Governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms.

I guess the President starts wars nowadays, but that's not legally supposed to happen. However, today's wars are limited and ran on a deficit anyway. Its not a WWII style total war that's going to have extreme effects on the economy.

Presidents love to take credit when the market is up, and love to pass the buck when it is down. Even the Federal Reserve doesn't have the effects on the economy it thinks it does

Ifall, sorry to hit you like this but you are just flapping your gums.
I'm not sure that the Federal Reserve members consider themselves independent. The Chairman is appointed by the President, hopefully after consideration that the chairman's views mesh with the President's. In addition, both the Fed Chairman and the Governors can be removed by the President for cause.

You made the statement that current wars don't have an extreme effect on the economy. Please validate your asertation. What would our economy be like if Bush didn't borrow a couple of trillion dollars for Iraq and Syria, and instead, spent it on infrastructure in Flint Michigan? Maybe on mandatory housing for the homeless, and they get released when they are sober and employable?

Please quantify how much affect the Fed Reserve does have on the economy, compared to how much affect they "think" they have.

Otherwise it's trumpian. "Huge", everybody knows, the best we've ever seen...

 

[sizzld1]

Obamacare: No appeasing, no compromise on this travesty we have now that forces people to pay money to private companies for a terrible product or be fined. Single payer or nothing. He had control of Congress in his first term and wasted it.

I'll let someone else address the rest of your points, some of which I agree with.... Obama's war record and his record on privacy rights - through NSA spying - were disappointing to put it mildly.

But, your statement above is only partially true. Obama bears some blame for the delay, but the Senate really screwed him over as a result of complacency, bad fate, and strong resistance to any healthcare overhaul. Republicans were fired up enough that they took the seat Ted Kennedy vacated when he died. No one thought that could happen and all of a sudden it killed the super-majority prior to reconciliation. That forced Dems and Obama to go with the much shittier/compromised Senate bill because it became the only way to get the bill passed at all. They could just have the House - which they still controlled handily - vote on an unedited Senate bill. Otherwise, the bill would have wound up back in the Senate and would have been completely blocked. I think it was a result of the Byrd Rule, but I could be wrong. Anyway, the Dems had always intended to heavily adjust the Senate bill during reconciliation to be closer to the House bill...but they blew it.

This article takes a pretty interesting look at the whole process:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/physiciansfoundation/2014/03/26/a-look-back-at-how-the-president-was-able-to-sign-obamacare-into-law-four-years-ago/#1c434d96526b

 

[everysurfer]

The "Obama doctrine" is a farce. You can't say "be less of an asshole" when you're still firing missiles into countries. Beyond that, international relations is machiavellian. Anything less than being an asshole will be seen as weakness, especially to the cultures who are trying to come up

Less of an asshole infers firing less missiles than before. He tried the "Obama Doctrine" in Cuba. Will we get anything out of it? Time will tell. The thinking man would contrast that with what could have been if we tried "The Obama Doctrine" in Iran in the 70's and 80's. Oil would have cost more, but we wouldn't have so radicalized the Middle East. Or the "Obama Doctrine in Indochina in the 50's and 60's. They would have realized decades sooner that forced communism/ socialism didn't work, decades earlier. George Washington warned of foreign entanglements.

 

[everysurfer]

Some posters on both ends aren't capable of deeper thought. That's on both sides. Fecal and Gromsdad both hurl insults that are so simplistic, yes when challenged, never debate with facts. Their second post is always just an insult.

Ifall, I've seen you, in the past be more thoughtful. Be more like Gdaddy and Afoaf. That guy always cracks me up.

Unless anybody needs me, I'll be packing in prep for tomorrow's evacuations and mudslides.

 

[FecalFace]

Some posters on both ends aren't capable of deeper thought. That's on both sides. Fecal and Gromsdad both hurl insults that are so simplistic, yes when challenged, never debate with facts. Their second post is always just an insult.

Bullshit.

I only debated once with you and it was about immigration.

You couldn't explain why you are hiring Mexican immigrants while claiming they are "stealing American jobs".

That's when you left the "debate".

 

[potato-nator]

WE NEED HER.

i'm not voting for a TV personality with no public service experience

me neither.
oh wait - i voted for Trump.

OK - I'm not voting for a TV personality AGAIN.

 

[everysurfer]

Some posters on both ends aren't capable of deeper thought. That's on both sides. Fecal and Gromsdad both hurl insults that are so simplistic, yes when challenged, never debate with facts. Their second post is always just an insult.

Bullshit.

I only debated once with you and it was about immigration.

You couldn't explain why you are hiring Mexican immigrants while claiming they are "stealing American jobs".

That's when you left the "debate".

Bullshit back at you Fecal.
You said I was exploiting Mexicans, without knowing anything about who I hire, their immigration status, or what rate of pay they get.

Your debate style is to attack and insult with baseless claims, so the other side has to defend themselves. Yet you never propose any solutions or ideas of your own.

 

[Billy Ocean]

Did you see any Hope or Change from Obama? His presidency should have been an awakening to all of you as well.

hope, yes definitely. Change, yes to that too. The "Obama Doctrine" yes i just made that up, is to be less of an asshole on the world stage.

I saw a huge difference from both his predecessors, Both Bushes, and Clinton. Yes he had failures. But the knee jerk condemnation is just weak.

Not just at you Ifall, but all of you Obama haters. Take one of his positions that you didn't like, and solve it for us "correctly"

But not just a bullshit barstool, I'd have done this, but really think it out. Tell us the ramifications of each piece of the puzzle, and add a value or cost to it.

Yea, this sounds like a college poli-sci essay assignment, but if you can't take it three steps out at least, you're just flapping your gums, and not stepping into his shoes.

I voted for change, I got status quo. You all did too

He said he was going to end the wars. They're still going on. How would I solve it correctly? Unilateral withdrawal.

Obamacare: No appeasing, no compromise on this travesty we have now that forces people to pay money to private companies for a terrible product or be fined. Single payer or nothing. He had control of Congress in his first term and wasted it.

The "Obama doctrine" is a farce. You can't say "be less of an asshole" when you're still firing missiles into countries. Beyond that, international relations is machiavellian. Anything less than being an asshole will be seen as weakness, especially to the cultures who are trying to come up

 

[Billy Ocean]

I hope Oprah runs

F career politicians

Maybe if it’s Oprah vs Donald we’ll get some out of the box thinking

Either one would be better than the ones who’ve been gunning for prez since birth

 

[Ifallalot]

[.

Neither the housing market or the stock market had anything to do with Obama.

Really? Nothing? Who sets interest rates? Who appoints the Fed Chairperson? What does the bond rate have to do with the stock market. What does the cost of war do to employment, and scarcity ?

The President isn't all powerful, but I'd say they have a weighty input.

Don't forget the the Federal Reserve System considers itself "an independent central bank because its monetary policy decisions do not have to be approved by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branches of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by the Congress, and the terms of the members of the Board of Governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms.

I guess the President starts wars nowadays, but that's not legally supposed to happen. However, today's wars are limited and ran on a deficit anyway. Its not a WWII style total war that's going to have extreme effects on the economy.

Presidents love to take credit when the market is up, and love to pass the buck when it is down. Even the Federal Reserve doesn't have the effects on the economy it thinks it does

Ifall, sorry to hit you like this but you are just flapping your gums.
I'm not sure that the Federal Reserve members consider themselves independent. The Chairman is appointed by the President, hopefully after consideration that the chairman's views mesh with the President's. In addition, both the Fed Chairman and the Governors can be removed by the President for cause.

You made the statement that current wars don't have an extreme effect on the economy. Please validate your asertation. What would our economy be like if Bush didn't borrow a couple of trillion dollars for Iraq and Syria, and instead, spent it on infrastructure in Flint Michigan? Maybe on mandatory housing for the homeless, and they get released when they are sober and employable?

Please quantify how much affect the Fed Reserve does have on the economy, compared to how much affect they "think" they have.

Otherwise it's trumpian. "Huge", everybody knows, the best we've ever seen...

The Fed is not as dependent on the executive as you think they are. Sure, the President gets to choose a new chairman, but the whole fed isn’t fired and rehired when regimes change. Beyond that, the market is still based on the invisible hand first, not the Fed. The Fed tries to apply pressure to move the market in different ways, but since we are not a controlled economy they don’t have absolute control. In fact, I believe, and many others do as well, that world economies would do better without the influence of the Fed and many other national banks.

Your second statement on the money spent on Iraq is a straw man. Do you actually think that money would have been spent on poor people in the US? You and I both know it wouldn’t have happened. All that money just went into the deficit for our kids to pay off

Good luck with the storm and great points on Fecal

 

[everysurfer]

The Fed is not as dependent on the executive as you think they are. Sure, the President gets to choose a new chairman, but the whole fed isn’t fired and rehired when regimes change. Beyond that, the market is still based on the invisible hand first, not the Fed. The Fed tries to apply pressure to move the market in different ways, but since we are not a controlled economy they don’t have absolute control. In fact, I believe, and many others do as well, that world economies would do better without the influence of the Fed and many other national banks.

Your second statement on the money spent on Iraq is a straw man. Do you actually think that money would have been spent on poor people in the US? You and I both know it wouldn’t have happened. All that money just went into the deficit for our kids to pay off

Good luck with the storm and great points on Fecal

We agree on most points. The first debate was whether the Pres does have an effect on the economy, I listed tome of the tools in his toolbox. He can pressure, but the "invisible hand" is going to rule the day. And i think we agree on the war money. It affected the world economy, but for the common U.S. citizen, it was a blunder.

Thanks for the wishes on the storm. I'm on a ridge between creeks, but I got trapped at home for weeks last time.

 

[Ifallalot]

 

[FecalFace]

Some posters on both ends aren't capable of deeper thought. That's on both sides. Fecal and Gromsdad both hurl insults that are so simplistic, yes when challenged, never debate with facts. Their second post is always just an insult.

Bullshit.

I only debated once with you and it was about immigration.

You couldn't explain why you are hiring Mexican immigrants while claiming they are "stealing American jobs".

That's when you left the "debate".

Bullshit back at you Fecal.
You said I was exploiting Mexicans, without knowing anything about who I hire, their immigration status, or what rate of pay they get.

Your debate style is to attack and insult with baseless claims, so the other side has to defend themselves. Yet you never propose any solutions or ideas of your own.

I never did such thing. Never used the word "exploiting".

You came out swinging against immigrants stealing American jobs but you couldn't answer WHY are you employing immigrants instead of red blooded Americans.


I may be harsh but I back up my arguments with logic and reason.

It's a shame that you can't get past the bad words and look at my arguments for what they are.

Sure, I resort to mocking with people like GromsDad because debating him is tedious.
Or ifall, because bigotry doesn't deserve consideration or respect.


Maybe Autoprax is right, "spooking the heard" is apparently a thing.

 

[everysurfer]

So why are you employing these people who are stealing Murkan jobs?

Okay dummy.
$8 in 1985 → $18.34 in 2018
Everysurfr, would you pay an unskilled kid out of highschool $18.34 an hour?
That's what I thought.

So why aren't you employing Murikans?
Spitting on immigrants while employing them is not nice either.
Bye Felicia.
Thanks you,
The Immigrant

My bad, you didn't use the word "explioting" .You used the word spitting on. These are your quotes.
These are the false accusations that you like to make. Again, you know nothing about who I hire, their immigration status, their rate of pay, or the level of dignity that I show every worker. I spit on no one.

I ended the conversation by saying you aren't a nice person. I will stand by that statement, because of your previous 23774 posts.

 

[FecalFace]

So why are you employing these people who are stealing Murkan jobs?

Okay dummy.
$8 in 1985 → $18.34 in 2018
Everysurfr, would you pay an unskilled kid out of highschool $18.34 an hour?
That's what I thought.

So why aren't you employing Murikans?
Spitting on immigrants while employing them is not nice either.
Bye Felicia.
Thanks you,
The Immigrant

My bad, you didn't use the word "explioting" .You used the word spitting on. These are your quotes.
These are the false accusations that you like to make. Again, you know nothing about who I hire, their immigration status, their rate of pay, or the level of dignity that I show every worker. I spit on no one.

I ended the conversation by saying you aren't a nice person. I will stand by that statement, because of your previous 23774 posts.

It's interesting that you took my posts out of context and skipped your posts in which you belittle immigrants.

If you think your are a nice person, you are in for a huge disappointment.

 

[everysurfer]

.

 

[potato-nator]

I hope Oprah runs

F career politicians

Maybe if it’s Oprah vs Donald we’ll get some out of the box thinking

Either one would be better than the ones who’ve been gunning for prez since birth

career politicians suck. X10 in New Jersey.

But that doesn't mean a zero is fit to command the most powerful/progressive nation on earth.

Fatty should stay in her place which is selling weight loss. for other people.

 

[potato-nator]

yet another example of how she is shockingly unsuited for the job is that her whole
existence is based on fluff purveyance. Example: you CAN eat chocolate cake for dinner
and STILL lose weight.

POTUS is the CINC from which fluff is - workwise - as far as one can get.

 

[Billy Ocean]

She’s no less qualified than Donald

She’s pretty impressive as a businesswoman

I think she’d be fine

 

[Ifallalot]

yet another example of how she is shockingly unsuited for the job is that her whole
existence is based on fluff purveyance. Example: you CAN eat chocolate cake for dinner
and STILL lose weight.

POTUS is the CINC from which fluff is - workwise - as far as one can get.

That sounds like a perfect politician.

"read my lips, no new taxes"
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman"
"Axis of evil, WMDs, yellow cake"
"You can keep your insurance"
"< 80% of Trump's words >"