older designs are still relevant

Mar 7, 2018
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the big players often offer "new" designs that promises to be faster, more maneuverable and easier to access "high performance". I have fallen for this idea of ongoing progression of the modern thruster shortboard at times. it wasn't until i took a step back that i realised how little the modern thruster has left in terms of development. the main difference these days is the length to volume ratio as more people want the same but a couple of inches shorter. bottom contours, outline and fin placement seem to be pretty similar - but i am only a punter.
what made me think about this is a recent purchase of a standard hpsb (DHD 3DV). as it was yellowing on the rack and must have been there for a year or more, it came at a good price. the design must be at least three or four years old. but it surfs as well as can be expected for this style of board (and the operators ability). it is however about 2" longer than a newer design for the given volume. i don't know about you, but i am not seeing a momentous shift in design anytime soon for the swiss army knife of surfboards.
 

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
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the big players often offer "new" designs that promises to be faster, more maneuverable and easier to access "high performance". I have fallen for this idea of ongoing progression of the modern thruster shortboard at times. it wasn't until i took a step back that i realised how little the modern thruster has left in terms of development. the main difference these days is the length to volume ratio as more people want the same but a couple of inches shorter. bottom contours, outline and fin placement seem to be pretty similar - but i am only a punter.
what made me think about this is a recent purchase of a standard hpsb (DHD 3DV). as it was yellowing on the rack and must have been there for a year or more, it came at a good price. the design must be at least three or four years old. but it surfs as well as can be expected for this style of board (and the operators ability). it is however about 2" longer than a newer design for the given volume. i don't know about you, but i am not seeing a momentous shift in design anytime soon for the swiss army knife of surfboards.
When I saw the title of this thread, I thought someone was taking a trip back to the eighties or even earlier. A 4yr old DHD 3DV is a modern design.

Regarding momentous shifts in design from this point onwards - it gets increasingly harder for that to happen. There has been some niche market freshness in say the last 20 years. Some that I can think of are:
- sandwich construction (already well developed for sailboards) - surftech and firewire
- Tomo's rectangular performance Simmons
- Album surfs successful refinement of asymmetrical designs
- the increased popularity of reactive carbon fibre builds - maybe this is more of a trend than anything - tuflite sandwich is very reactive, but was never popular

anyone else think of recent "discoveries"?

edit --> here is another one - the major manufacturers have "discovered" that Greg Griffin's rearward twin positions can produce a twin fin that has more drivey thruster like qualities than the MR performance twin (which was a momentous shift at the time).
 
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Duffy LaCoronilla

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Apr 27, 2016
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Original CI Pod came out 24 years ago and I have yet to see a better small wave performance board. Roberts White Diamond a close second and just as old.

Original Flyer is still probably as good as a daily driver you can have in California.

Design in the HPSB is driven by pros, mostly contest and contest adjacent pros. Those guys are holding back innovation in board design and construction.
 

GromsDad

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Jan 21, 2014
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Design in the HPSB is driven by pros, mostly contest and contest adjacent pros. Those guys are holding back innovation in board design and construction.
Average joe should ignore almost every board out there and buy a Rusty 1984. Until they max out everything that board is capable of they shouldn't move on to anything any more high performance than that.
 

flyinraptr

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Dec 18, 2008
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The surfboard resale market where i am at is not what it is back in the States .... so i've hung onto boards longer than i normally would if i was living in the US. We're in the middle of our off-season and to keep things interesting ... i'll take out a board i've haven't ridden in 2 or 3 years ... sometimes the results are surprising .... not remembering how well it went etc. Today i'm taking out a Bulkley 6'0" Snapping Pig .... a small wave performance fish ... I think he orginally shaped it for me back in 2015-2016 .... probably close to 4 years since i've ridden it. Anxious to see how it goes.
 

teeroi

Miki Dora status
Oct 21, 2007
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eastside oahu
The rocker, single to double concave to vee bottom on the Tokoro 4VC has been available for over 20 years. If you’ve been watching the clips from Pipe a bunch of the pros are on that old proven bottom. But the foam distribution, outline tweaks and fin placement especially for quads are updated every season. So it’s an older design that is still evolving. Lot of NS round pin type models from our local shapers are like that.
 

surfwhere

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Aug 5, 2008
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Some people say brands have too many models. Personally, I'd rather walk through new and old options to find something I'm pretty sure I'd like or reorder what I know I like. Around 2007, I had a famous shaper tell me that my favorite hpsb and small wave models were discontinued. I had them dialed in from several years of reordering. He said order this better model instead. He did that so he could sell his pro's new model. It was not an improvement for me. All he had to do was open an old file and cut it, but nah. That's one thing that led me to here where I found the White Diamond.
 

stringcheese

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Jun 21, 2017
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For the honest surfer there are more good boards out there than ever before, even though it is hard to beat some ogs like the flyer. Can’t get caught up trying to ride what slater rides though, should have learned that from the 90s. Everybody out there on way too short board now.
 
Jan 2, 2024
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I think the ghost came out in 2016. If the 3dv is an old model the ghost is outdated. John John needs a new board now.
 

casa_mugrienta

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Apr 13, 2008
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Original CI Pod came out 24 years ago and I have yet to see a better small wave performance board. Roberts White Diamond a close second and just as old.

Original Flyer is still probably as good as a daily driver you can have in California.

Design in the HPSB is driven by pros, mostly contest and contest adjacent pros. Those guys are holding back innovation in board design and construction.
The top guys on tour are not riding anything crazy and no anemic surfboards. Board design has only gotten more user friendly, for them too. They want boards that are easy to surf too.

Plenty of pro'z are trying alt tech, most going back to the reliability and versatility and ease of PU. Take Dark Farts carbon for instance - by the time he started that aspect of his business that build was old news. It had been ridden and tossed by plenty of pro'z and ex pro'z and non pro'z.

Most good shapers have multiple files of the same board based on feedback from customers, pro'z, and their own two feet.

At no other time in history has their been such a wide variety of boards with such a huge spread of people giving feedback.

For this reason boards have only gotten better and easier to surf.

That said I don't think anything revolutionary in the actual shape of boards is coming anytime soon. More like staying the same, with a rotation of flavors.

I would be surprised if there were no changes to the AO twin made over the past 47 or whatever years that have made it more user friendly.

If it was made in 1977 but wasn't holding you back does it have the capabilities and ease of the Twinsman?
 

Duffy LaCoronilla

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Apr 27, 2016
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I would be surprised if there were no changes to the AO twin made over the past 47 or whatever years that have made it more user friendly.

If it was made in 1977 but wasn't holding you back does it have the capabilities and ease of the Twinsman?
It says on their website they made the tail wider than the original. Front end is the same. The Light Vehicle bottom may also not be on the original. @Sharky probably knows more.

I’d say the AO has more capability than the Twinsman but you have to be very precise when surfing the AO. The TM is way more user friendly.

Re: my surf yesterday. Most of the waves I rode I could do no wrong. Feet were stuck to the board. Board felt like in was a part of my body. Seemingly unlimited speed and control.

A few waves I caught felt like I completely forgot how surf. Board stalled out, stuck in the mud, fins break free for no apparent reason.

The AO hates mush burgers too.
 
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