*** Official Corona Virus Thread ***

jamesgang

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Aug 9, 2006
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We are managing the virus in many places.

Here in San Diego county there is a major hospital that currently has only 1 (ONE) coronavirus patient in the ENTIRE FACILITY.

Here's another fact: Admissions for COVID 19 have been declining in the county since July 4th despite the 6 -7% positivity rate. (Positivity rate during lockdown was 3%)

All of this while beaches are packed on the weekends, Mission Bay Park is packed, and no one is wearing masks.

Facts.
That is great news, and I definitely agree about the teacher's unions. A staff of teachers and administrators can figure how to be physically present at a school facility to implement online learning.

Although... why? Especially when the rest of the world is figuring out telecommuting, and teachers have their own kids at home who will not be at school.

Thinking it through though, it would be really nice for teachers, and many other public employees, to be physically present at work (safely) in solidarity with our health care professionals who have no such assurances of safety, and are going to work every damn day anyway.

Respect to you for that casa, I know you are in the line of fire.
 

casa_mugrienta

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Although... why?
My understanding is it helps establish structure to the online learning environment for the students (the teacher is actually in a classroom), gives access to most classroom resources, and establishes a level of accountability and professionalism.

When it comes down to it there are a lot of teachers who since the shutdown have been enjoying a very long vacation getting paid full salary for about 1/10th of the work.

My nephew's teacher (he's a third grader) was holding Zoom meetings twice a week for one hour. That's a total of 2 hours contact with her students a week. She was also rather difficult if not impossible to get ahold of for additional assistance when needed. There was really no teaching going on and he struggled. Luckily his parents were able to assist and pay for a private tutor.

Most school districts are facing multiple lawsuits due to failure to provide various aspects of education...my nephew's online learning environment is a typical example of this failure.

My wife's school was actually advised by their attorney to have all teachers teaching online from the classroom this year for this very reason.
 

Boneroni

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Mar 5, 2012
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My understanding is it helps establish structure to the online learning environment for the students (the teacher is actually in a classroom), gives access to most classroom resources, and establishes a level of accountability and professionalism.
That's such bs. I get the idea that you measure all teachers by the terrible ones. IMO, teaching remotely is a serious clusterfck, and I'm for anything that can help the good teachers (Of which, I believe, are the vast majority) with this crazy thing they have to do this coming year. I don't envy them.
Teachers are trained to be aware of the emotional state of their students, and most of them probably don't even need training to know that students will be fragile. Any teacher worth their salt will know this and create a learning space that establishes structure, familiarity and professionalism.

Also, relying on the physical classroom for resources? I'm not sure what you mean. The online curriculum is online, so that's there. Are you worried about internet speed? Or pencils and erasers and colored construction paper?

My wife's school was actually advised by their attorney to have all teachers teaching online from the classroom this year for this very reason.
Fear of getting sued is a terrible reason to do anything.
 

oneula

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Jun 3, 2004
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schools with the adequate resources will be doing every thing in their power to protect their students(cash cow) and teachers. These are the private schools, charter and other for profit schools as well as schools in well to do tax income districts. Some of these measures include social distanced plexiglass enclosed desks, mandatory masks and face shields all provided by one school here to the tune of $700 per student. They are also mandating the use of mobile apps to track the location of all students while on campus for tracing after the fact.
Schools that don't have the resources aren't doing sht(because they can't) except moving desks further apart and holding classes outside. No protocols no strategy, just basic public school survival mode.. (i,e, you're on your own.) Some teachers with resources are having family build these plexiglass desk shields for their kids. Some spouses are doing it to protect their spouse.
My niece is a elementary public school teacher so I have been think about doing the same. No different than what was happening with remote teaching where those with the tools and connectivity win and those that don't have computers, and internet don't. Public schools have become the cheap day care of the 20th-21st century.

Most remote essential work is being pushed out till the summer of 2021 when a vaccine may be more widely available for a reasonable cost and the impact of the early vaccine adopters may be exposed. Even that might be too early.

We just had an all hands managers meeting regarding more onsite employees testing positive over the weekend. Since we are all essential but required to be onsite, we're in lockdown mode now. Masks which are provided are mandatory while on premise (because you can't trust your co-worker anymore with community spread), additionally face shields encouraged but not provided, complete wipe down with provided sanitary wipes of your desk when you arrive and when you leave as well as any shared device (printer/copier) you touch. No one within 6 feet of each other and if required for no greater than 5-10 minutes max person to person exposure. Follow all the one way signs on the floor to prevent hallway walk bys. Violators to be reported to the HR Covid Situation Manager which may impact your annual performance evaluation of not being able to follow simple directions and company policies.With the increasing cases they are dead serious and will be sending monitors like we use fake customers through out the organization for self testing of compliance. They claim they are just following CDC and hired corporate medical consultant advice but I'm sure this has something to do with the medical insurance coverage they are providing us. And bonding insurance we all must be covered by.

I can't fathom how a school would be able to implement such processes and still be functional. Especially if the CDC guideline is that anyone within 6 feet exposure for over 15 minutes of an infected tested positive individual must self quarantine for 14 days. That wipes out a chunk with each individual testing positive. And that doesn't consider asymptomatic spread.

Seems like allot of observers here are you-tube watchers, and teachers, but apparently there's no epidemiologists, pulmonary or emergency room doctors or people in a position of political power making these decisions on this message board to give us some real insight versus a bunch of crazy internet researchers. Would love to have someone actually running a covid unit in a major impacted city give us the breakdown of what we should or should not be doing to help the situation when it appears staying at home doesn't seem to work.
 
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stringcheese

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Jun 21, 2017
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I suppose it's natural to wonder what you can do to help. If you demand an answer, someone in a position of authority will give you one. Push enough and you'll get your "duck and cover". If you need that for your mental well being.
Don't overlook the "do nothing" option, though. For almost everyone, that is the honest answer. "Anything is better than nothing" is the participation trophy of problem solving.
 
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jamesgang

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When it comes down to it there are a lot of teachers who since the shutdown have been enjoying a very long vacation getting paid full salary for about 1/10th of the work.
I think that holds true for a lot of the remote work force right now, or at least it could. I guess I just don't get why teachers, who have very difficult jobs that already pay poorly, should be singled out. Should all those who work from be taking a pay cut on the grounds that some are less productive?
 

PRCD

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Feb 25, 2020
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@oneula If you read them, you might find that epidemiologists don't agree.

Marc Lipsitch said at the beginning of this that millions were going to die. He beefed with John Ioannidis that said that the IFRs were overestimated. Ioannidis published a paper recently estimating the median IFR at .26%. I linked it a few pages back. Lipsitch, dug in on his own side, only promoted one back in May estimating the global IFR at 1%, or about 4x Ioannidis' more recent estimate, or even estimates from other countries suggesting that seroprevalence was far higher than measured cases.

Science is quite messy and people who make faulty predictions often double-down. Some are disgraced.

You're not going to get much certainty out our polarized scientific community, I'm afraid.
 
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stringcheese

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Jun 21, 2017
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@oneula If you read them, you might find that epidemiologists don't agree.

Marc Lipsitch said at the beginning of this that millions were going to die. He beefed with John Ioannidis that said that the IFRs were overestimated. Ioannidis published a paper recently estimating the median IFR at .26%. I linked it a few pages back. Lipsitch, dug in on his own side, only promoted one back in May estimating the global IFR at 1%, or about 4x Ioannidis' more recent estimate, or even estimates from other countries suggesting that seroprevalence was far higher than measured cases.

Science is quite messy and people who make faulty predictions often double-down. Some are disgraced.

You're not going to get much certainty out our polarized scientific community, I'm afraid.
Not in nine freaking months, anyhow. Scientific consensus takes time. I don't know how much time, but certainly more time than it takes to make a human.
 

PRCD

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Not in nine freaking months, anyhow. Scientific consensus takes time. I don't know how much time, but certainly more time than it takes to make a human.
A word of caution: science progresses one death at a time because the old guys have a ton of ego invested in their models and can't see beyond their own blind spots. Younger scientists who deviate from consensus are always vilified and no one ever apologizes to them if they were right.

If there is a consensus today, don't be surprised if it's wrong.
 

casa_mugrienta

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That's such bs. I get the idea that you measure all teachers by the terrible ones.
C'mon man, don't start with that. My mom was a teacher for 40 years. My wife is going on 15 years teaching. I substitute taught for much of my 20s as a side job to help me get on my feet...So I've been directly exposed to the ins and outs of teaching as an occupation my whole life. I respect teachers greatly. Being a good one is hard work. Not for lazy people.

IMO, teaching remotely is a serious clusterfck, and I'm for anything that can help the good teachers (Of which, I believe, are the vast majority) with this crazy thing they have to do this coming year. I don't envy them.
I don't either. Teaching remotely - keyword teaching - is really fvckin hard.

Way harder than regular teaching.

I watched my wife go through it. Wasn't fun. 9AM to 4PM she was online. She only as required to be on 4 hours a day, but making herself available to her 4th grade students she needed to spend way longer.

I'll refer you again to the example of my nephew. 3rd grader. 2 hours of instructor contact a week. That's not the only story I've heard like this - I'm just not repeating the others because I can't actually verify them.

Teachers are trained to be aware of the emotional state of their students, and most of them probably don't even need training to know that students will be fragile. Any teacher worth their salt will know this and create a learning space that establishes structure, familiarity and professionalism.
Of course, and plenty of teachers did it right.

At the same time plenty were not putting in what online teaching required.

I'll say once again, this is not easy for teachers, their job is now a lot harder. And this was not in their job description.

Also, relying on the physical classroom for resources? I'm not sure what you mean. The online curriculum is online, so that's there. Are you worried about internet speed? Or pencils and erasers and colored construction paper?
Accountability, reliable internet capabilities, document cameras, whiteboards, manipulatives, etc.

Fear of getting sued is a terrible reason to do anything.
The bottom line is it's a big-time reality at the moment.

And if you operate a private school it could sink the ship.
 

casa_mugrienta

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I think that holds true for a lot of the remote work force right now, or at least it could. I guess I just don't get why teachers, who have very difficult jobs that already pay poorly, should be singled out. Should all those who work from be taking a pay cut on the grounds that some are less productive?
No, if anything teachers should be getting paid more right now.
 

Bohter

Michael Peterson status
Mar 7, 2006
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Kary Mullis....the inventor of the RT-PCR test and Nobel Prize recipient....was an HIV Skeptic....
Now apply the same question to the Covid-19 Virus...
Just one paper....
 
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JBerry

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Dec 8, 2017
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I surely don't know the right answer for schools to open up, but my .02 is if you don't have kids in school now, or you are not a
K-12 grade teacher, or someone who actively works for a school or district in some way, and you think that schools should open up, then you should just stick a sock in it! :nana:
 
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Jul 6, 2020
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Well, I had corona. It felt like a very bad flu. But I survived and now I have nothing to fear. Except thousands and thousands of other deadly diseases, lol.
 

casa_mugrienta

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I surely don't know the right answer for schools to open up, but my .02 is if you don't have kids in school now, or you are not a
K-12 grade teacher, or someone who actively works for a school or district in some way, and you think that schools should open up, then you should just stick a sock in it! :nana:
Except some people pay taxes and everyone will have to live with the societal cost.
 
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