NSR - Martial Arts/Ju jitsui for teenagers?

Autoprax

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Jan 24, 2011
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I want to do BJJ with old people so I could beat them up.

The value of martial arts in self defense comes from training few times a week.

That is what makes you hard to beat up.
 

rowjimmytour

Tom Curren status
Feb 7, 2009
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Rbeach
If you actually want something your teens can defend themself with and not a huge dance and show sign them up for boxing. Improve speed, agility, eye cordination, indurance, confidence, etc
 
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PRCD

Kelly Slater status
Feb 25, 2020
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Not anything that will work when you need it 3 years later.
What makes you say that?
Part of what makes BJJ, wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai effective in a real fight is that you spar against uncooperative opponents regularly. Especially BJJ and wrestling.
In all those sports, you practice/drill moves before you spar.

It toughens you and it calms you. You can keep you cool in a highly charged physical confrontaion.
Sure.

I’ve been getting smashed almost everyday for the last 10 years. I am totally clear and comfortable when someone is on top of me punching me in the face and trying to choke me. And my body will act instinctively the correct way because of thousands of hours of being in the situation that is burned into nervous system.
How similar is that to real criminal violence? In other words, do you ever drill scenarios - including noncooperative ones - where you are assaulted similar to a criminal mugging which is often many on one and/or one guy armed with a gun or a knife?

Even in a case of social violence, let's say you try to work some groundfighting techniques on a guy who's assaulted you and his girlfriend simply runs up and sticks a knife in you? Would you say your years of getting punched and choked on the ground would've been better than learning how to recognize and diffuse the signs of escalating social violence beforehand? Do they teach such things at your school?

If you don’t want to commit to regular training with hard sparring save you money you’d spend on the weekend course, buy some running shoes and work on your cardio.
In your opinion, is the military wasting its time on combatives training as part of its basic training, even if that training is not regular or even if it's done only once in basic training? Were Echanis and Fairbairn wrong? Is no training better than some training if it's not going to be practiced regularly?
 

Duffy LaCoronilla

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Apr 27, 2016
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What makes you say that?
You need to train consistently. Some seminar every so often isn’t really going to stick.

In all those sports, you practice/drill moves before you spar.
Not sure what your point is here. Yes, a typical session is warm up/conditioning, technique/drilling, positional training (full speed) then sparring full speed. Live sparring is usually half of the total time.

Day in day out.



How similar is that to real criminal violence?
These arts are great for one on one, no weapons. I’ve never claimed otherwise.

But to answer your question the best I can do is we go hard. I can tell you this, plenty of people can kick my ass but it won’t be easy.



In other words, do you ever drill scenarios - including noncooperative ones - where you are assaulted similar to a criminal mugging which is often many on one and/or one guy armed with a gun or a knife?
Because of training for years in combat sports I am accurately aware of the fact that if someone wants to rob me and has a gun or knife I’ll most likely give them whatever they want even if I’m carrying a gun.

I have little interest in shooting someone. And again this comes from (firearms) training. Consistent regular training.

And in the firearms training we do go through many different possible scenarios.

If you think you’re weekend seminar in the SPEAR system would make any difference then you are delusional.

Even in a case of social violence, let's say you try to work some groundfighting techniques on a guy who's assaulted you and his girlfriend simply runs up and sticks a knife in you? Would you say your years of getting punched and choked on the ground would've been better than learning how to recognize and diffuse the signs of escalating social violence beforehand? Do they teach such things at your school?
1. I’m not going to the ground if at all possible. This is why wrestling is important. Gives you the ability to stay on your feet.

2. we can make up all kinds of different scenarios that are virtually impossible to train for. That being said, being acutely aware of your vulnerabilities (another thing that daily training accomplishes) while also being extremely confident in your strengths is a not so surprising way to avoid getting in street fights.
In your opinion, is the military wasting its time on combatives training as part of its basic training, even if that training is not regular or even if it's done only once in basic training?
ive never been in the military and can only share with you what I’ve been told by the numerous training partners who have...

...all of them have said that they thought the combatives training was really good until they started doing Jiu jitsu. Then they realized it was useless.

Is no training better than some training if it's not going to be practiced regularly?
Sometimes “some training” can give people a false sense of invincibility and in those cases I’d say not training at all is probably better.

The women I know who train with us get into it because they want to be able to defend themselves and for most of them what they really learn is just how utterly defenseless they really are against bigger, stronger men.

there are “women’s self defense” classes out there that, combined with totally unrealistic depictions in movies and tv, give women an overinflated sense of their ability to fend off an attacker

And that is extremely valuable.

That is also my own personal take away from regular consistent training. I’m acutely aware of just how defenseless I really am.

This is really the bottom line here. The best thing a person can have is a realistic understanding of their fragility. Regular hard sparring in combat sports is the best way to get that.
 

PRCD

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Feb 25, 2020
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You need to train consistently. Some seminar every so often isn’t really going to stick.
You're definitely going to be rusty if you haven't trained in awhile. The question is, "Can you learn enough to fight back effectively enough if you are ambushed and can't run?" That's what Blauer is trying to address in a PDR class.

Because of training for years in combat sports I am accurately aware of the fact that if someone wants to rob me and has a gun or knife I’ll most likely give them whatever they want even if I’m carrying a gun.

I have little interest in shooting someone. And again this comes from (firearms) training. Consistent regular training.

And in the firearms training we do go through many different possible scenarios.
This is different than saying, "Just sign up for BJJ." I'd argue that the best thing for the time and money is getting under a barbell.

If you think you’re weekend seminar in the SPEAR system would make any difference then you are delusional.
I don't agree at all. If it even helps someone understand the criminal mindset and be willing to fight back it's a deterrent to criminals and progress towards a safer trainee.
Sometimes “some training” can give people a false sense of invincibility and in those cases I’d say not training at all is probably better.
A good trainer is realistic and emphasizes avoidance and the odds. Saying that bad trainers increase a false sense of security is a non sequitur. I'd argue that unrealistic training for most men is going to make them more likely to become victims, and that includes thinking you're tough just because you roll regularly in a carefully-controlled environment.
The women I know who train with us get into it because they want to be able to defend themselves and for most of them what they really learn is just how utterly defenseless they really are against bigger, stronger men.
Of course men are a ton stronger. The guys your women are training with are bigger, stronger, and more trained than the average man. Even if men are a ton stronger, the odds are better for a woman who fights back rather than allows herself to be dragged off to a secondary crime scene. Guys like Sanford Strong proved this conclusively.
there are “women’s self defense” classes out there that, combined with totally unrealistic depictions in movies and tv, give women an overinflated sense of their ability to fend off an attacker
Again, I'm talking about good training with scenarios developed from watching CCTV of real crimes and crime statistics. If a criminal wants a woman's purse, she should give it to him. If he wants her body or her child's body, she should fight.

This is really the bottom line here. The best thing a person can have is a realistic understanding of their fragility. Regular hard sparring in combat sports is the best way to get that
This is great but let's be realistic about who's going to train regularly in some MMA-related sport, how long you can realistically do it before injuries accumulate (they accumulate much faster for women), and whether that's the ONLY thing valuable. You're engaging in a lot of "all-or-nothing" thinking.
 

jamesgang

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Aug 9, 2006
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I think getting a kid in the Gracie Combatives program is awesome for self defense. At the end of it they will know some really useful stuff. If they like it, they can keep going. Nothing builds confidence like training with a cohort of students, and you make some great friends.

Regular training and sparring is the best way to build confidence and situational awareness, great for boys and girls. That's mostly what you are teaching. As far as boys are concerned, the more regularly they train, the less they will want to actually fight. My $.02.

P.S. the greatest self defense in the world is a humble attitude and a good sense of humor.