Multivitamins

encladd

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Creatine. If it's good for the knees, it might be good for the shoulder and spine?

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Anybody have a recommendation for a good, inexpensive creatine brand. I think I'm going to make that protein/creatine drink....
 
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averagejoe

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I posted an amazon link to the powder I use in my earlier post. It's basically flavorless and readily dissolves in liquid. Maybe there are better ones or cheaper ones out there. I'm not an expert. I add 5g to my oatmeal every morning. Adding it to a protein shake is what most people do I think.

I've been doing half a scoop of whey protein in my oatmeal as well. A whole scoop is just a little much but half a scoop seems doable and is better than nothing I reckon.

Maybe I'll try the bone broth powder next @grapedrink

Oh yeah and I would say for anyone just starting on creatine, drink plenty of water.
I felt like I retained a lot of water when I was taking creatine. Part of the reason I stopped. And wanted to see what would happen if I stopped. I have one of those impedance scales and wanted to see what happened to my body fat % when I got off the creatine.
 
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VonMeister

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I felt like I retained a lot of water when I was taking creatine. Part of the reason I stopped. And wanted to see what would happen if I stopped. I have one of those impedance scales and wanted to see what happened to my body fat % when I got off the creatine.
Creatine does cause intracellular water retention, but does not change total body water % relative to muscle mass. When beginning creatine the retention effects are greater but resolve in a week or so. Any weight gain from creatine is insignificant (.05% bw) and less appreciable than normal weight change due to dehydration while sleeping overnight.

If creatine would have any difference in body fat it would be a tertiary benefit of weight loss due to increase in muscle mass over time.

The accuracy of impedance scales for providing any useful information is dubious at best. Even if accurate trying to focus on that level of minutia isn't worthwhile. Let your waist circumference and mirror be your guide.
 

VonMeister

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There are large scale meta studies that show no effect of multivitamins on lifespan (link) and may shorten it (link).

I think you're active enough, that you won't get dementia. Plus, you taught so you were always using your brain. Just the other day, I was thinking about how many times I have to figure something out b/c I'm missing some material that I need to run a lab. Brain exercise.
This is true. There is not a single shred of evidence that multivitamins provide any health promoting benefit. It's amazing that they have had the resilience that they do. I'm sure a pathology exists that can whole or partially addressed with a multivitamin..or specific vitamin supplement but it's baffling that people are self prescribing them when it's just flushing money down the toilet...literally.

Even physicians without a personal interest in nutrition science won't have sufficient knowledge to discuss the intricacies pertaining to nutrition or nutrient consumption, although they would likely be aware of the data surrounding vitamin supplementation....which tend to be of no benefit in most people...yet I think it's common for physicians to just recommend a multivitamin to satisfy a patients need to hear something.
 

VonMeister

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Beef based protein powders are not a good choice given the alternatives. Pea protein would be a better alternative to Whey.

At the end of the day as long as the proteins are complete and have sufficient quantities of EAA's it's hard to find a reason to recommend one over the other. Beef based powders tend to be very low in leucine.

 
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grapedrink

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Beef based protein powders are not a good choice given the alternatives. Pea protein would be a better alternative to Whey.

At the end of the day as long as the proteins are complete and have sufficient quantities of EAA's it's hard to find a reason to recommend one over the other. Beef based powders tend to be very low in leucine.
For someone who does not get enough protein and leucine in the first place, I agree. If you are already at the sufficient mark for baseline protein replacement rate/muscle protein synthesis (3-4 feedings at 30-40 g/P/day) then it doesn't make much of a difference what the source of protein is beyond that. This is what researchers found with BCAA supplementation- it makes a difference for those who are deficient but not for those who already consume a good amount of protein.

At the end of the day it has to agree with you. I want to like pea protein but it doesn't digest well for me.
 

VonMeister

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For someone who does not get enough protein and leucine in the first place, I agree. If you are already at the sufficient mark for baseline protein replacement rate/muscle protein synthesis (3-4 feedings at 30-40 g/P/day) then it doesn't make much of a difference what the source of protein is beyond that. This is what researchers found with BCAA supplementation- it makes a difference for those who are deficient but not for those who already consume a good amount of protein.

At the end of the day it has to agree with you. I want to like pea protein but it doesn't digest well for me.
The Beef protein posted is 10 bucks more than whey and just not as good of a protein supplement as other options...I guess they had tp pay extra for all the marketing on the label.

Most people are just barely getting enough protein to survive, which is why wasting is so prevalent among the aging and sick. All published standards (3-4 feedings at 30-40 g/P/day) are to support existing tissue and organ function. If you exceed what these standards used as the daily activity/exercise criteria....which anyone who is active does...you should be optimizing based on your own bodies requirements...which are based on amount and type of activity and age. If someone is serious about this then beef protein supplements would be towards the bottom of the list and only a good option if the other very well tolerated and available options became unavailable.
 

grapedrink

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The Beef protein posted is 10 bucks more than whey and just not as good of a protein supplement as other options...I guess they had tp pay extra for all the marketing on the label.
That's fine. You do you. I find it tastes better and agrees with my digestion the most. YMMV

Most people are just barely getting enough protein to survive, which is why wasting is so prevalent among the aging and sick. All published standards (3-4 feedings at 30-40 g/P/day) are to support existing tissue and organ function. If you exceed what these standards used as the daily activity/exercise criteria....which anyone who is active does...you should be optimizing based on your own bodies requirements...which are based on amount and type of activity and age. If someone is serious about this then beef protein supplements would be towards the bottom of the list and only a good option if the other very well tolerated and available options became unavailable.
Sure, but all the sources I've seen show that going beyond 40 g P (~3.5-4 g leucine) 4x per day is the maximum MPS you can get in 24 hours, even in trained individuals. Therefore if you hit that target does it really matter where any additional protein comes from since you are already at peak MPS?
 
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VonMeister

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That's fine. You do you. I find it tastes better and agrees with my digestion the most. YMMV


Sure, but all the sources I've seen show that going beyond 40 g P (~3.5-4 g leucine) 4x per day is the maximum MPS you can get in 24 hours, even in trained individuals. Therefore if you hit that target does it really matter where any additional protein comes from since you are already at peak MPS?
MPS is much too complex to put a definitive range on. It's also a waste of time to try and measure. I would equate focusing on it to watering your lawn while your house is on fire. Focus on your diet and the results.

However, MPS is driven by digestion of protein. A body's ability to digest protein is individual dependent. We know one thing for sure, that as you age your ability to digest protein is reduced from when you were in your 20's. If you are eating 40 grams and digesting 50% of it how many and how much MPS events are you getting? What if you have a mostly benign asymptomatic digestive disorder like undiagnosed Crohns that impacts your ability to digest proteins?

Guidelines are guidelines and are designed to provide useful information that covers 100% of the general population.....but we know there are outliers in everything and in this case strength training will force you outside of the guidelines.

If most..and certainly older lifters wants to guarantee maximum benefit from dietary protein they will consume 1.6-2.0 g per kg/day over 3 but not exceeding 5 meals per day....beginning early when possible. There's no downside to this.

The best way to find out your specific dietary protein needs is to be consistent with your training, diet and sleeping and stay aware of how you feel. If you're feeling fatigued or mentally foggy after a intense training day, not recovering or you aren't progressing over time you likely need to increase your protein intake. If you're walking around weak between training sessions you likely are calorie deficient. The key is to be consistent and make small adjustments over time. "Minimum effective dose" allows you to track small changes in diet and training so you will be certain how you respond.
 
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One-Off

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This is true. There is not a single shred of evidence that multivitamins provide any health promoting benefit
:shrug:




Daily MVM supplementation, relative to placebo, resulted in a statistically significant benefit on global cognition (mean z = 0.07, 95% CI 0.02 to 0.12; P = .007), and this effect was most pronounced in participants with a history of cardiovascular disease (no history: 0.06, 95% CI 0.01 to 0.11; history: 0.14, 95% CI -0.02 to 0.31; interaction, nominal P = .01). Multivitamin-mineral benefits were also observed for memory and executive function.
 

VonMeister

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:shrug:




Daily MVM supplementation, relative to placebo, resulted in a statistically significant benefit on global cognition (mean z = 0.07, 95% CI 0.02 to 0.12; P = .007), and this effect was most pronounced in participants with a history of cardiovascular disease (no history: 0.06, 95% CI 0.01 to 0.11; history: 0.14, 95% CI -0.02 to 0.31; interaction, nominal P = .01). Multivitamin-mineral benefits were also observed for memory and executive function.
That's not evidence. Was it the cocoa or the vitamin? It occurred for three years outside a controlled environment. Was screening done on the participants lifestyle and diet during the testing period? We know personal testimony is not reliable...so how? Biomarkers and gene type were excluded.