Max heart rate

[One-Off]

I went for a run today. I've been running a couple times a week. Usually an easy run of about 3-4 miles and one longer of about 6-8. Today I decided to go a bit longer. I did a 12 mile run. I haven't run with a heart rate monitor for a long time so I put it on today. My heart rate quickly went up to and past 80% of my max (which is the zone my MD told me to run at). I felt good though so I just ran at what was a sustained but not all out pace. My heart rate was pegged at max or close to max for most of the run. I did not feel I was straining nor was I out of breath.

Was I risking my health by running at max for so long? I did a quick internet search and it said you should not be able to exercise at your max for more that a few minutes. So what's going on?

 

[Chocki]

Why’d your doc tell you to you to run at 80%?
Do you have any health issues/underlying conditions?
What are your goals?

 

[One-Off]

I

Why’d your doc tell you to you to run at 80%?
Do you have any health issues/underlying conditions?
What are your goals?

I have a myocardial bridge. It's a congenital conditionwhere the left anterior descending artery (aka widow maker) dips under the heart muscle, therefore the artery gets squeezed during the systolic phase. Symptoms vary. Mine was very slight angina. MD (cardiologist) told me to stop if and when I feel tightness. And to train at 80% of max. I felt no tightness so I kept running.

Goals? None really. Just feels good to run at the beach and get a work out. Wouldn't mind doing another marathon in the future but I'm not presently training for that.

I'm just wondering if others can and do train at max rate for long periods of time.

An article I read said max rate does not change with fitness. It's a fixed quantity. Your fitness determines how long you can train at max rate.

This AM I feel fine. Heart rate and BP was normal.

 

[Chocki]

What Is Anaerobic Exercise?

When I am coaching novices on getting their sprint on, I ask them to imagine a blood thirsty Rottweiler (not to pick on Rotties) trying to take a gash out of their hamstring - run like that. Or as a sign I recently read said, “Run like you stole something.” That is what it means to run anaerobically. You can’t do it for long. Why? Because training anaerobically means training without oxygen. Anaerobic exercise is defined as short duration, high intensity exercise lasting anywhere from merely seconds up to around two minutes. After two minutes, the body’s aerobic system kicks in. Examples of anaerobic exercise are ones that use fast twitch muscle fibers such as jumping and sprinting. By using and developing those fibers we enhance that musculature.

The anaerobic effect happens in the body when we exert ourselves at 84% of our max heart rate and above

Go Anaerobic: What It Is and Why to Do It - Breaking Muscle

A few years ago I went through a battery of fitness tests. I ran an obstacle course and a mile and half timed run. There was also a one-minute pushup test, a flexibility test, and situp test, as well as a 300-meter sprint. The mile and a half was challenging as I was running a pretty fast clip...

breakingmuscle.com

 

[One-Off]

What Is Anaerobic Exercise?

When I am coaching novices on getting their sprint on, I ask them to imagine a blood thirsty Rottweiler (not to pick on Rotties) trying to take a gash out of their hamstring - run like that. Or as a sign I recently read said, “Run like you stole something.” That is what it means to run anaerobically. You can’t do it for long. Why? Because training anaerobically means training without oxygen. Anaerobic exercise is defined as short duration, high intensity exercise lasting anywhere from merely seconds up to around two minutes. After two minutes, the body’s aerobic system kicks in. Examples of anaerobic exercise are ones that use fast twitch muscle fibers such as jumping and sprinting. By using and developing those fibers we enhance that musculature.

The anaerobic effect happens in the body when we exert ourselves at 84% of our max heart rate and above

Go Anaerobic: What It Is and Why to Do It - Breaking Muscle

A few years ago I went through a battery of fitness tests. I ran an obstacle course and a mile and half timed run. There was also a one-minute pushup test, a flexibility test, and situp test, as well as a 300-meter sprint. The mile and a half was challenging as I was running a pretty fast clip...

breakingmuscle.com

That's what I read. Max heart rate is possible for a couple minutes only. I was at or near max (155-170bpm) for most of my run (1:50). I use the Scadinavian max heart rate calculator because it gives a higher number .

Heart Rate calculator - CERG - NTNU

Maximum heart rate calculator

www.ntnu.edu

What I did should be impossible.

 

[Chocki]

That's what I read. Max heart rate is possible for a couple minutes only. I was at or near max (155-170bpm) for most of my run (1:50). I use the Scadinavian max heart rate calculator because it gives a higher number .

Heart Rate calculator - CERG - NTNU

Maximum heart rate calculator

www.ntnu.edu

What I did should be impossible.

You try and push the anaerobic envelope and you’ll know it. If I try too hard on a climb or sprint too long while mt biking or push too hard with my Battle Rope I get to a point where Im forced to stop/physically unable to continue. I’m gasping for breath (my body’s need for Oxygen exceeds the supply) and I’m hoping I didn’t just make myself vomit.

 

[One-Off]

At that same Norwegian University website with the heart rate calculator, they say there is a lot of variation in actual max heart rate. They have recommend an exercise test to calculate max rate. I think I'll try that if it's not too hot this weekend.

Heart Rate calculator - CERG - NTNU

Maximum heart rate calculator

www.ntnu.edu

 

[VonMeister]

What Is Anaerobic Exercise?

When I am coaching novices on getting their sprint on, I ask them to imagine a blood thirsty Rottweiler (not to pick on Rotties) trying to take a gash out of their hamstring - run like that. Or as a sign I recently read said, “Run like you stole something.” That is what it means to run anaerobically. You can’t do it for long. Why? Because training anaerobically means training without oxygen. Anaerobic exercise is defined as short duration, high intensity exercise lasting anywhere from merely seconds up to around two minutes. After two minutes, the body’s aerobic system kicks in. Examples of anaerobic exercise are ones that use fast twitch muscle fibers such as jumping and sprinting. By using and developing those fibers we enhance that musculature.

The anaerobic effect happens in the body when we exert ourselves at 84% of our max heart rate and above

Go Anaerobic: What It Is and Why to Do It - Breaking Muscle

A few years ago I went through a battery of fitness tests. I ran an obstacle course and a mile and half timed run. There was also a one-minute pushup test, a flexibility test, and situp test, as well as a 300-meter sprint. The mile and a half was challenging as I was running a pretty fast clip...

breakingmuscle.com

You coach?

 

[VonMeister]

What Is Anaerobic Exercise?

When I am coaching novices on getting their sprint on, I ask them to imagine a blood thirsty Rottweiler (not to pick on Rotties) trying to take a gash out of their hamstring - run like that. Or as a sign I recently read said, “Run like you stole something.” That is what it means to run anaerobically. You can’t do it for long. Why? Because training anaerobically means training without oxygen. Anaerobic exercise is defined as short duration, high intensity exercise lasting anywhere from merely seconds up to around two minutes. After two minutes, the body’s aerobic system kicks in. Examples of anaerobic exercise are ones that use fast twitch muscle fibers such as jumping and sprinting. By using and developing those fibers we enhance that musculature.

The anaerobic effect happens in the body when we exert ourselves at 84% of our max heart rate and above

Go Anaerobic: What It Is and Why to Do It - Breaking Muscle

A few years ago I went through a battery of fitness tests. I ran an obstacle course and a mile and half timed run. There was also a one-minute pushup test, a flexibility test, and situp test, as well as a 300-meter sprint. The mile and a half was challenging as I was running a pretty fast clip...

breakingmuscle.com

Big time Youtube graduate coach guy is going to tell someone with a diagnosed myocardial bridge to do anaerobic training.

 

[sdsurfrat]

Max heart rate

Racing at Mcdowell, Arizona i hit a max 212bpm on a Cycling Peaks file.
Hopefully these activities won't shorten my lifespan much........

 

[Chocki]

Big time Youtube graduate coach guy is going to tell someone with a diagnosed myocardial bridge to do anaerobic training.

Says he went for a 12 mile run and his HR monitor said he was above the max HR his Dr. contraindicated.

“ I felt good though so I just ran at what was a sustained but not all out pace. My heart rate was pegged at max or close to max for most of the run. I did not feel I was straining nor was I out of breath.”


Me, wanting more info:
“Why’d your doc tell you to you to run at 80%?
Do you have any health issues/underlying conditions?
What are your goals?” (To make sure his “goal” isn’t to do anything his doctor doesn’t want him to)

Answer: I have a myocardial bridge. It's a congenital conditionwhere the left anterior descending artery (aka widow maker) dips under the heart muscle, therefore the artery gets squeezed during the systolic phase. Symptoms vary. Mine was very slight angina. MD (cardiologist) told me to stop if and when I feel tightness. And to train at 80% of max. I felt no tightness so I kept running.

Goals? None really. Just feels good to run at the beach and get a work out. Wouldn't mind doing another marathon in the future but I'm not presently training for that.

I'm just wondering if others can and do train at max rate for long periods of time.

An article I read said max rate does not change with fitness. It's a fixed quantity. Your fitness determines how long you can train at max rate.

This AM I feel fine. Heart rate and BP was normal.”

Me: Awesome. He went for a run, feels fine. His goals aren’t gonna go against Dr.’s orders. Is confused about something
Things that stuck out:
“I was at or near max (155-170bpm) for most of my run (1:50). I use the Scadinavian max heart rate calculator because it gives a higher number .“
“I'm just wondering if others can and do train at max rate for long periods of time.”

Me: Provides the simplest definition of anaerobic training I can find using the tools at hand, the internet.

Him:That's what I read. Max heart rate is possible for a couple minutes only.

Me: Also gives examples of what anaerobic training feels like using examples from my personal life. Battle ropes and climbing/sprinting on a mtb so that he’ll be able to recognize the signals his body gives him when he starts exceeding the max HR the Dr. gave.

Him: going to look into why he got a strange HR reading on his long run now that he knows that it was impossible for him to train at the rate it told him he was for the time he did.

 

[One-Off]

VM, so I know you DO coach. Do you have experience or knowledge of folks whose max heart rate is actually much higher than the standard 220-age?

 

[Chocki]

VM, so I know you DO coach. Do you have experience or knowledge of folks whose max heart rate is actually much higher than the standard 220-age?

Hope I was able to help answer your previous question. Anything beyond that is %100 beyond me pay grade but I’m pretty sure I know someone who can help. I’m convinced he’s the smartest person I’ve ever met. Shoot him an email with your question(s). He loves helping people.

 

[One-Off]

Hope I was able to help answer your previous question. Anything beyond that is %100 beyond me pay grade but I’m pretty sure I know someone who can help. I’m convinced he’s the smartest person I’ve ever met. Shoot him an email with your question(s). He loves helping people.

My question now is - is it possible that, although my max heart rate according to standard calculatorsis 160 - 170, in reality it is closer to 200? And that would explain why I can train at 170.


ps- I watched the video. I'm going to preempt Von Meister here and say what he is proposing is exercising the muscles in a compromised position and it is better to exercise the same muscle in a non compromised position (ie the standard squat). After VM explained this in another thread, I asked my PT about it and she concurred.

I had been asking about squatting in the valgus position because, like many, my crouch is in the valgus position -


-

 

[Chocki]

That’s a great pic. Don’t want to give you any misinformation so I’m going to continue to refrain from further HR discussion.

My take aways from Max and the Matrix:

Be open to the entire range of movement possibilities
Purposefully train the movements and movement patterns that are most relevant to you.

Non compromised positions allow you to lift the most weight and do have a lot of relevance especially when your goals are raw strength.
Non compromised positions rarely occur in real life.

My personal philosophy is all about real world application/carry over.

The Secret of Loaded Carries

Add this to your workouts and you'll be bigger, leaner, and stronger. No BS, just results. Here are several ways to do it.

www.t-nation.com

We Need MORE People Getting Farm Boy STRONG • Zach Even-Esh

Putting athletes through some good ol' fashion Farm Boy Workouts forces the truth to be told about who is strong – both mentally and physically.

zacheven-esh.com

 

[VonMeister]

VM, so I know you DO coach. Do you have experience or knowledge of folks whose max heart rate is actually much higher than the standard 220-age?

I worked with a collegiate crew team last summer and one of the guys had an issue where his heart was racing and he couldn't control it. From what I recall it was treated as a medical emergency and he was given some sort of medication to lower it. He had an underlying condition that was addressed and he still rows today.

There are perfectly healthy people whose max heart rate is greater than 220. You are different...you have an existing medical condition. You need to work with your cardiologist on figuring out your max heart rate...its an easy test and then set your limits. When you're given a limit it's best to stick with that unless the two of you can be convinced that exceeding these limits is safe. That said..a lot of docs play it really safe without an understanding of what is safe or dangerous and just paint a broad brush so if your dissatisfied get a second opinion. My personal opinion is that if you can sneeze and poop without dying, it's safe to train with very few limits... but I'm not a doctor.

I know you enjoy distance running, but at the end of the day the health benefits of distance running are negligible. It's simply not that beneficial for overall health. Before Choski posts a YouTube video of a guy who can run 15 miles then balance on his head for an hour as an example of health..... I'm not saying distance running is bad...just that there are better aerobic exercises out there for overall health.

As far as anaerobic training goes, I don't think it's in the cards for you and I don't believe your high heart rate was due to anaerobic training or being in an anaerobic state. There are significant benefits to anaerobic training but again....work with your cardiologist.

 

[VonMeister]

That’s a great pic. Don’t want to give you any misinformation so I’m going to continue to refrain from further HR discussion.

My take aways from Max and the Matrix:

Be open to the entire range of movement possibilities
Purposefully train the movements and movement patterns that are most relevant to you.

Non compromised positions allow you to lift the most weight and do have a lot of relevance especially when your goals are raw strength.
Non compromised positions rarely occur in real life.

My personal philosophy is all about real world application/carry over.

The Secret of Loaded Carries

Add this to your workouts and you'll be bigger, leaner, and stronger. No BS, just results. Here are several ways to do it.

www.t-nation.com

We Need MORE People Getting Farm Boy STRONG • Zach Even-Esh

Putting athletes through some good ol' fashion Farm Boy Workouts forces the truth to be told about who is strong – both mentally and physically.

zacheven-esh.com

Training in compromised positions builds less strength than training in non compromised positions. As you said, it's better for max strength. It's also safer.

More strength always equals more ability to resist an external force that it pulling a limb into a compromised position.

It sounds to me like your train of thought is being in a compromised position under external load teaches you to be able to resist external loads if you ever happen to find yourself in that position. This is false because muscle contraction is going to happen in those circumstances anyway. It's a subconscious reflex that you don't have to think about, like breathing. Training for strength in a safe and efficient manner will not only give you the strength to resist injury, you will also gain soft tissue strength and thickness (tendons, ligaments etc), which also helps with injury prevention. Also training beyond required range of motion only provides joint instability and nothing more...which decreases injury prevention.

 

[Chocki]

“Since becoming a personal trainer, Max Shank has switched his focus from basic strength training to a holistic approach of overall fitness and health. His passion has become helping people rehabilitate injuries and fix their basic fundamental movement patterns enabling them to function at an exceptional level, no matter what they are doing, whether it be playing a sport or walking up the stairs.Max is a firm believer that everyone should be strong, capable, and confident to handle any situation regardless of age or gender. Apart from being very active in Martial Arts, Max plays tennis regularly and recommends that adults spend more time in physical “play.” Max Shank has also received an Official Commendation from the United States Marine Corps for services rendered in the course of enhancing the athletic readiness of the 1st Anglico at Camp Pendleton.“

Max Shank | Personal Trainer & Owner of Ambition Athletics

Max Shank - Personal Trainer & Owner of Ambition Athletics Encinitas, CA. Strength training, focusing on the holistic approach of overall fitness and health

ambitionathletics.com

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[VonMeister]

Moar Youtube

 

[One-Off]

I worked with a collegiate crew team last summer and one of the guys had an issue where his heart was racing and he couldn't control it. From what I recall it was treated as a medical emergency and he was given some sort of medication to lower it. He had an underlying condition that was addressed and he still rows today.

There are perfectly healthy people whose max heart rate is greater than 220. You are different...you have an existing medical condition. You need to work with your cardiologist on figuring out your max heart rate...its an easy test and then set your limits. When you're given a limit it's best to stick with that unless the two of you can be convinced that exceeding these limits is safe. That said..a lot of docs play it really safe without an understanding of what is safe or dangerous and just paint a broad brush so if your dissatisfied get a second opinion. My personal opinion is that if you can sneeze and poop without dying, it's safe to train with very few limits... but I'm not a doctor.

I know you enjoy distance running, but at the end of the day the health benefits of distance running are negligible. It's simply not that beneficial for overall health. Before Choski posts a YouTube video of a guy who can run 15 miles then balance on his head for an hour as an example of health..... I'm not saying distance running is bad...just that there are better aerobic exercises out there for overall health.

As far as anaerobic training goes, I don't think it's in the cards for you and I don't believe your high heart rate was due to anaerobic training or being in an anaerobic state. There are significant benefits to anaerobic training but again....work with your cardiologist.

What's the easy test? Nuclear stress test?