Legendary surfer/shaper reviews Firewire Surfboards

jkb

Tom Curren status
Feb 22, 2005
10,042
8,981
113
Central California
Part of the process of ordering a custom surfboard has always been talking to the shaper. You tell him where you're going to be surfing, what type of waves, and what you normally ride (show him if possible), your height and weight, what you're looking for (shortboard, groveler, whatever) and then he takes it from there. Takes maybe 5 - 7 minutes.
5-7 min per person is deluded.

I bet if you ask any custom board builder they'll say talking with the customer is the biggest time suck of their day. People are not in and out in 5-7 minutes. They want to talk story, have a beer, bro out, watch some shaping.......whatever it might be. Multiply that by the other 10 people that walk through the door that day and the shaper's there until midnight trying to catch up.

Having someone manage their orders and talk to customers so they can focus on shaping makes a lot of sense for a lot of builders. And charging people extra for a shaper consultation makes sense too.
 

Sharky

Phil Edwards status
Feb 25, 2006
6,828
9,062
113
By all means talk to the shaper if you need to. Just try to read the room. Don't be a time bandit. This is piece work. The moment you stop working and start talking, you stop earning. You don't earn much, but you have to keep moving to make it work. If the shaper is leading you ever deeper into a design discussion and he seems into it, participate. Assuming you are into it. If you are telling him surf stories about how hard you rip and the story is moving into page 35, check yourself. If you're scattered organize your thought on paper before you talk to him. Just don't be a Time Bandit. The same goes with emails. When you are writing page after page, there's something OCD going on. I know one shaper that sets one day aside every week to answer emails. It takes him all day. And then, as he is writing the last few emails, half of the ones he has already replied have sent page long follow ups to his replies. 1 1/2 days later, he maybe gets back to shaping.

Oh, and anyone that is making surfboards because they are a greedy capitalist pig has failed at being a capitalist pig. Simply by choosing to make surfboards. The old joke of, "How do you make a small fortune in surfboards? Start with a large fortune..." applies in spades.

And I don't charge for making width, thickness or length changes. Custom rockers, custom outlines, rail/bottom modifications, etc, then you're getting charged.
 

ReForest

Michael Peterson status
Oct 7, 2020
3,071
4,555
113
I think a lot of what MC wrote is valid. He is, IMO, a bit emotional/jaded about what he sees happening, but considering some of what he has been through, I'm willing to give him a pass. Not that he needs a pass from me, you or anyone else. He's voicing his opinion which is based in decades of familiarity and what he sees happening. I'm getting the impression he pretty much gives zero fvcks what anybody thinks. And you have every right to criticize that from the comfort of your LazyBoy. (y)
You're giving him a "pass" on being overly emotional and unreasonable because of the hard times he's gone through? How does that help him or surfing? What about the truth of the matter and being honest with him and yourself. The only criticism thats worth considering is the one that is based on truth, love and respect. Maurice is directing his frustrations at one single person (Kelly) and one single entity (FW) when its a combination of factors, most of which are out of his control. Surfing has become a trend and the amount of adults, celebrities, and people in general that want to learn to surf is huge. The industry will never be the way it was because it will never be that small again until the industry implodes.

This happened in the skate industry too and its an inevitble evolution that needs to run its course. In the end, the true hardcore lovers of the craft will shake out. There are enough big players in the game that can direct the future of surfing in a positive way regardless of the changes that are going on.
 

Sharky

Phil Edwards status
Feb 25, 2006
6,828
9,062
113
You're giving him a "pass" on being overly emotional and unreasonable because of the hard times he's gone through? How does that help him or surfing? What about the truth of the matter and being honest with him and yourself. The only criticism thats worth considering is the one that is based on truth, love and respect. Maurice is directing his frustrations at one single person (Kelly) and one single entity (FW) when its a combination of factors, most of which are out of his control. Surfing has become a trend and the amount of adults, celebrities, and people in general that want to learn to surf is huge. The industry will never be the way it was because it will never be that small again until the industry implodes.

This happened in the skate industry too and its an inevitble evolution that needs to run its course. In the end, the true hardcore lovers of the craft will shake out. There are enough big players in the game that can direct the future of surfing in a positive way regardless of the changes that are going on.
First I didn't say he was being unreasonable. You did. And we all go through hard times. If you haven't yet, you will. My giving him a pass on his tone is a personal decision. You do you. And I'm sure MC gives zero fvcks re any offense taken to his comments or my pass. His criticism contains some truths. And I will bet that MC could fill in the blanks and talk about a number of people. The consignment squeeze play has been played by other entities in the past. I mean, I could fill in a few blanks. There were discussions re this years and years ago in this very forum. Different players that time.

Long term the strategy isn't good for anyone IMO. Inevitably the player will overbuild and be stuck with too much inventory which will then have to be kicked out the door at a deep discount which will in turn depress prices for everybody. Here we go again...
 

estreet

Miki Dora status
Feb 19, 2021
4,856
4,220
113
Southern Cali
If I knew what to order I'd be making boards myself.
If you’re really that clueless then how do you know that the shaper isn’t just telling you whatever you want to hear to get you out door as soon as possible. I work in a creative field and it is sometimes the case that you have to give a client what they asked for rather than what would perform better for them.
 
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Havoc

Phil Edwards status
May 23, 2016
7,682
12,216
113
in da hood next to paradise
If you’re really that clueless then how do you know that the shaper isn’t just telling you whatever you want to hear to get you out door as soon as possible. I work in a creative field and it is sometimes the case that you have to give a client what they asked for rather than what would perform better for them.
first off, hi deforest’s troll.

second, i measure rocker, concaves, tail, and nose widths. always come out exactly as we spoke about with shapwr. shaper also told me the rocker numbers that work best with the design through his own trial and error. opposite of the popout modelz
 

Ivanmeister

Michael Peterson status
Dec 16, 2010
2,820
66
48
Cabo, Mexico
To sort of stay on topic... I don't consider all the offshore surfboard factories a bane to the industry, if that was the case then the whole industry is to blame, and it is. Everyone is out there to make a profit/living (call it what you like) and it's the consumer that keeps it alive, willingly or brainwashed. We all have a choice to make.

Whoever is blaming Kelly for being a buisinessman is delusional. If your partner in life is banging someone else, thats on you.
 
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surfwhere

Gerry Lopez status
Aug 5, 2008
1,300
460
83
Norf Cackalacka
Visit site
@ReForest has zero.0000000 surf industry experience. He is a biased consumer of limited surfing experience in regards to skill and years of involvement. His love for the "flex"in Firewire tech and fairly easy to ride boards with the addition of this site provides him an opportunity to share his thoughts on such matters. His comments about these things may have some value if you share similar attributes. Outside of that, all other comments about the surf industry here are based on his desire to be accepted in a different hierarchy and not considered a kook. For example he made previous statements on skateboarding. He wasn't alive when the early parks were bulldozed and he was around 9 maybe when the real collapse happened. He didn't work in a shop that had hundreds of decks at the time and hosting large events to going out of business shortly after. He did not feel that pain. It is something he read about, not experienced. If you want an experienced and informed opinion read what @Sharky has to say.
 

estreet

Miki Dora status
Feb 19, 2021
4,856
4,220
113
Southern Cali
Oh, and anyone that is making surfboards because they are a greedy capitalist pig has failed at being a capitalist pig. Simply by choosing to make surfboards. The old joke of, "How do you make a small fortune in surfboards? Start with a large fortune..." applies in spades.
That was certainly the case with BASE. Yeah, MC is da masta.
 

casa_mugrienta

Duke status
Apr 13, 2008
43,214
17,644
113
Petak Island
5-7 min per person is deluded.

I bet if you ask any custom board builder they'll say talking with the customer is the biggest time suck of their day. People are not in and out in 5-7 minutes. They want to talk story, have a beer, bro out, watch some shaping.......whatever it might be. Multiply that by the other 10 people that walk through the door that day and the shaper's there until midnight trying to catch up.
I'm usually in and out in less than 10 mins.

Some guys have this down, and apparently other guys don't.

Seems like the ones that do spend part of the day shaping, the other part of the day taking orders.

I'm talking about world class shapers.

If the customer can't figure out when to STFU, the shaper can shut down the conversation.

Having someone manage their orders and talk to customers so they can focus on shaping makes a lot of sense for a lot of builders.
Agree, if you have someone who knows what they're talking about doing it.

I've noticed a lot of these guys talking to customers and taking orders don't have a clue. They're like a level up from the surf shop grom, might be able to throw in some technical lingo and that's it. They're just there to sell the product.

And charging people extra for a shaper consultation makes sense too.
Not really, most shapers already do "shaper consultations" when somebody orders a board.

I'm trying hard to imagine standing there while the shaper is filling out the order slip, and I start to ask him if he thinks we could maybe add a liter but keep the length the same and he responds by saying "I can tell you the answer, but it's going to cost you $50..." lol
 
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