Knee Pain

Sharky

Phil Edwards status
Feb 25, 2006
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I thought ICE was out?
I'll use ice during the first 24 hours of an injury, but especially for chronic stuff like tendonitis I have found it to be counterproductive. I know someone who is an MD who also went and got a Dr of Oriental medicine degree. The Chinese/Oriental outlook is "ice is for dead men." Whatever.

To make this a little surf related, I got a call from Malcolm at the last Boardroom show. He's had knee problems. I have been nagging him to try knee over toes guy stuff. Probably been a little evangelical re the whole thing. Anyway, he called me from the booth and told me Jock Sutherland was in there and he was ranting about KOTG. "You guys should talk."

At this point, the list of people I have preached to that have had very positive results is LONG. Nothing works for everybody or every situation, but it may be worth a shot depending upon your situation.
 

Random Guy

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Jan 16, 2002
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I'll use ice during the first 24 hours of an injury, but especially for chronic stuff like tendonitis I have found it to be counterproductive. I know someone who is an MD who also went and got a Dr of Oriental medicine degree. The Chinese/Oriental outlook is "ice is for dead men." Whatever.

To make this a little surf related, I got a call from Malcolm at the last Boardroom show. He's had knee problems. I have been nagging him to try knee over toes guy stuff. Probably been a little evangelical re the whole thing. Anyway, he called me from the booth and told me Jock Sutherland was in there and he was ranting about KOTG. "You guys should talk."

At this point, the list of people I have preached to that have had very positive results is LONG. Nothing works for everybody or every situation, but it may be worth a shot depending upon your situation.
Add me to your list!
and thank you!
 
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Bullnutts

Gerry Lopez status
Nov 14, 2004
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Another positive story.

I have, or probably should say had, Fibular head pain in my right leg. I messaged KOTG on IG almost two months ago and he responded with a group of videos that he had on YouTube (saved me the time in trying to find them). They have been working; in fact most days I don't even realize that the pain isn't there. Just have to remain consistent. Mobility and flexibility is definitely coming back.
 

PRCD

Tom Curren status
Feb 25, 2020
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KOTG is just graded exposure - a time-tested way of dealing with chronic pain. Yes you’re building strength but you’re gradually doing it with greater ROM and building more confidence which tells your brain it’s safe. Starting Strength would probably work as well, but it's promoted by a guy who looks like an older, angry lone rhinoceros rather than a younger, telegenic man with a beautiful young family and a powerful backstory of self-healing.

How's the knee, Groms?

The KOT stuff is good. I even paid for the app for a few months mostly just to hold my self accountable. Still have some knee pain when I overdo it. For me I can't do more than two full on leg days per week. I've gained so much muscle in my lower body in the past 6 months doing mostly backwards sledding (built a ghetto tire sled that I pull around outside), tib raises, calf raises, step ups, split squats and nordics.

If I could only do one thing it'd be the forwards and backwards sledding. It just feels so good on my knees and there's very little injury risk. Plus I get some cardio out of it as well.
What rep range (how many reps per set) are you doing the backward sledding? How does the whole thing work - do you load it with plates? Do you have a pic? I've noticed it's really tough to put mass around the knee area when you've got long legs even if you're going ass-to-calves and using something that deloads the spine like my DIY lever-arm belt squat. I've got a plate-loaded knee extension bench that maybe I should use more.
 

Aruka

Tom Curren status
Feb 23, 2010
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KOTG is just graded exposure - a time-tested way of dealing with chronic pain. Yes you’re building strength but you’re gradually doing it with greater ROM and building more confidence which tells your brain it’s safe. Starting Strength would probably work as well, but it's promoted by a guy who looks like an older, angry lone rhinoceros rather than a younger, telegenic man with a beautiful young family and a powerful backstory of self-healing.



What rep range (how many reps per set) are you doing the backward sledding? How does the whole thing work - do you load it with plates? Do you have a pic? I've noticed it's really tough to put mass around the knee area when you've got long legs even if you're going ass-to-calves and using something that deloads the spine like my DIY lever-arm belt squat. I've got a plate-loaded knee extension bench that maybe I should use more.
Im having trouble uploading pics with my poor baja internet. I just took a tire, drilled a hole through the tread, put a heavy steel eye hook through the hole with a washer and nut on the inside. I had an old slackline but any sort of wide strap would work. Just a big loop of the strap maybe 10 ft long and then a carabiner to attach it to the eye hook. The tire i have is smallish so the big 50lb plate just rests on top. If you have a bigger tire or smaller plates you might need to put some plywood inside to make a platform.

I put about 75lbs of plates on the tire so its around 100lbs total im guessing. I loop the strap around my waist and pull it backwards along my driveway. Maybe 100ft. And then i pull it forwards. Back and forth for 5-10 min. I try to keep my heart rate from spiking too high if Im planning on doing a longer workout afterwards but if its my only workout for the day ill add more plates and go hard until im gasping.
 

Aruka

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In case my explanation wasnt clear enough this guy goes into more detail. I know you have boys and this sled has proven effective at tiring out my nephew when hes got a little too much energy. I took all the plates out (hes 3).

 

Random Guy

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Jan 16, 2002
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I do a15 minutes backward sled pull with 3x45s on it
theres a strap that goes around my back and attaches to the base of the sled in the front on each side.

And yeah @PRCD, theres probably lots of other ways to build strength to support the knees. KOTG fixed his elderly mom’s messed up knees, so , like, wow, it’s gotta work

i think the Nordic hamstring curls are a help, but I have a hard time finding the right equiment to lock my feet under

i might have to switch gyms because the one area where you can pull a sled always has people doing a ton of stuff lying on the astroturf or swinging kettle balls or twisting while holding a long stick in both hands like their training to be one of those Asian fighters in kill bill

i keep an eye out while I’m doing other stuff and then jump all over it when it clears off enough
 

Bullnutts

Gerry Lopez status
Nov 14, 2004
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Haven't done the sled but walking backwards on the farmer's carry machine (not sure what the hell the thing is called) is great. End of workout, I do the one minute jog and then the one minute walk for five minutes, then five minutes of walking backwards. The machine has a set incline and you can control the amount of resistance. Good for knees and cardio!
 

Random Guy

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Jan 16, 2002
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Haven't done the sled but walking backwards on the farmer's carry machine (not sure what the hell the thing is called) is great. End of workout, I do the one minute jog and then the one minute walk for five minutes, then five minutes of walking backwards. The machine has a set incline and you can control the amount of resistance. Good for knees and cardio!
Is this machine called a “treadmill” ?
i ‘ve only done the walking backwards thing once in the past 6 months. I just keep forgetting
 

PRCD

Tom Curren status
Feb 25, 2020
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In case my explanation wasnt clear enough this guy goes into more detail. I know you have boys and this sled has proven effective at tiring out my nephew when hes got a little too much energy. I took all the plates out (hes 3).

Did you gain weight from this training program?
 

Aruka

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Did you gain weight from this training program?
Yeah I gained a noticeable amount of muscle in my lower body but not just from sledding I did the whole kotg program which has all sorts of split squats, calf raises, nordics etc.

I think if your goal is to gain muscle mass there are probably better programs but I am happy with the gains and ive been a skinny mofo most of my life.
 
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PRCD

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Yeah I gained a noticeable amount of muscle in my lower body but not just from sledding I did the whole kotg program which has all sorts of split squats, calf raises, nordics etc.

I think if your goal is to gain muscle mass there are probably better programs but I am happy with the gains and ive been a skinny mofo most of my life.
This is more proof that body part specialization programs work, like Israetel was saying in his interview of Milo Wolfe. How much weight did you gain and over how much time????
 
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One-Off

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Jul 28, 2005
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I'll use ice during the first 24 hours of an injury, but especially for chronic stuff like tendonitis I have found it to be counterproductive. I know someone who is an MD who also went and got a Dr of Oriental medicine degree. The Chinese/Oriental outlook is "ice is for dead men." Whatever.

To make this a little surf related, I got a call from Malcolm at the last Boardroom show. He's had knee problems. I have been nagging him to try knee over toes guy stuff. Probably been a little evangelical re the whole thing. Anyway, he called me from the booth and told me Jock Sutherland was in there and he was ranting about KOTG. "You guys should talk."

At this point, the list of people I have preached to that have had very positive results is LONG. Nothing works for everybody or every situation, but it may be worth a shot depending upon your situation.
Which of his exercises are you doing? What does he say about doing them with pain?
 

PRCD

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Feb 25, 2020
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Haven't done the sled but walking backwards on the farmer's carry machine (not sure what the hell the thing is called) is great. End of workout, I do the one minute jog and then the one minute walk for five minutes, then five minutes of walking backwards. The machine has a set incline and you can control the amount of resistance. Good for knees and cardio!
Walking backward up a hill or stairs with dumbells will do the same thing as the sled drag. You can even do the stationary method - get a block and step down then up. KOTG looks like a grasshopper.
 

One-Off

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Jul 28, 2005
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In the first minute of this video he says rice is wrong, exercise and movement is what you need
check out his videos
I was told that ICE and NSAIDS were OK in the acute phase. In the long run, both retard healing. Heat is actually better for tendinitis or tendinopathy. I've also recently watched a video (the only one I could find that addressed my particular issue) that said rehab means finding the balance of rest/recovery and activity/strength building. My self diagnosis of my issue is mild "distal hamstring tendinopathy." My knee is sore on the inside MCL. I keep running, it never gets acutely worse, but it is not getting better. I have an appointment with PT coming up.

I have watched KOTG. On my short run (10k) there is this ramp at the turn around and I just began doing 5 climbs going backwards. Will probably add his extreme split squats too. I just have to figure out how to dose everything with the pain, so as not to make it worse.

IMG_8215.JPG


This was the video about rehab rest/activity- I timestamped it for the rest and activity discussion but the rest is a pretty good primer for tendon issues. Timestamp never works for me- 20:20 relative rest. She also says not to use NSAIDS in acute phase.

 
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Aruka

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Feb 23, 2010
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This is more proof that body part specialization programs work, like Israetel was saying in his interview of Milo Wolfe. How much weight did you gain and over how much time????
Ive gained about 15 lbs in the past 10 months but some of that is undoubtably fat because i was eating pretty heavy. This is doing kotg leg workouts 2x week, upper body/core 2-3x week and echo bike workouts/stretching/weighted vest hikes thrown in there. Workouts are usually an hour and a half or so.

Ive been traveling so not able to do my routine and ive been eating lighter and surfing/biking for the past month so ive trimmed down. Went from 170 to 190 at my heaviest. Right now about 182 and pretty slim. Spent much of my adult life in the 165 lb range which for a 6-3 tall guy is pretty skinny. I wish id gotten my sh!t together a long time ago. The knee is still an issue though. Not back to 100%.
 
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