JS warehouse Oceanside retaliation

ULUSURFER

Gerry Lopez status
Jan 2, 2007
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Yeah, it's an interesting phenomenon. When I go to order a PU, options are usually listed as standard, light, or ultra-light, ect..... but I don't know what the actual densities are.

Often times going to order EPS, they disclose exactly what density is being used.

I like having more info.
I think that has to do with the glassing selection, not the blank. I cant imagine shapers wanting to have to deal with the blank densities changing that much
 

Bob Dobbalina

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Feb 23, 2016
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America costs way more to build boards than australia, the exchange rate is an extra 27% icing on the cake.

800 aud is equal to 585 usd. Your board has tax included. A board bought in America with tax added is $980 aud. $665+$55 tax.

$150 dollars when you add in the volume of boards JS does that adds up quickly. From a business standpoint that is huge on a per board basis.

I hope that they can do customs out of california but probably unlikely

Can you explain?
You mentioned that build costs are more in the US, but you referenced retail pricing. That doesn't necessarily mean anything. Is it actually cheaper to build in AUS? Why?
 
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ghostshaper

Phil Edwards status
Jan 22, 2005
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I think that has to do with the glassing selection, not the blank. I cant imagine shapers wanting to have to deal with the blank densities changing that much
blanks are also listed as light, UL, etc. the old Clark super greens were light, but sometimes would end up heavier than blues after glassing b/c they soaked up too much resin.
 
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JBerry

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Dec 8, 2017
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I don't even know why eps blanks are 1#, 2# or 2.5#.

the 2# is the best all around strength to weight ratio, and plenty light weight.
 

Bob Dobbalina

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Probably less environmental restrictions. And I'm assuming cheaper rent in coastal OZ vs coastal Southern California.

My assumptions as well, but it would be great for someone to chime in with something akin to "a finished board costs this much to produce in ___ and this much in ___"

I'm just not buying it. Australia ain't cheap.
 
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Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
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America costs way more to build boards than australia, the exchange rate is an extra 27% icing on the cake.

800 aud is equal to 585 usd. Your board has tax included. A board bought in America with tax added is $980 aud. $665+$55 tax.

$150 dollars when you add in the volume of boards JS does that adds up quickly. From a business standpoint that is huge on a per board basis.

I hope that they can do customs out of california but probably unlikely
Ok, so you quote $665 + US $55 = US$720 for a board purchased (and I think you mean manufactured) in America. A US worker who earns say US$80k salary in the same sort of job in Australia would expect to earn roughly AU$80k in Oz.

So from a consumer point of view boards are cheaper in the USA than Aus when wages are taken into account. i.e a US worker could afford to buy more surfboards than their australian counterpart. When the extremely high cost of australian residential property is taken into account and the less favourable $AU exchange rate for buying those necessary imported household items, the australian resident would have even less spare money for surfboards.

Despite the higher wages the local US surfboard industry still manages to produce boards locally for US$720. So your suggestion that it costs far more to build in US due OSHA environmental regulations is not adding up. Barry Snyder said that there must be something like 50 shaping machines in Oceanside. I'm not saying it is easy to make a profit from surfboards, but that is the same everywhere.

As for the AU exchange rate advantage is $150 really a lot when the cost of shipping from the other side of the planet is taken into account? How is JS going to manage the lead time for custom built in Aus shipped to US? I stand by my statement that Southern California is the mecca for locally built PU/PE - hotbed of world class shapers, local glass shops. What Greg Griffin says makes sense - JS is only importing because of their poor ability to work with local manufacturing.
 

ULUSURFER

Gerry Lopez status
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My assumptions as well, but it would be great for someone to chime in with something akin to "a finished board costs this much to produce in ___ and this much in ___"

I'm just not buying it. Australia ain't cheap.
Australia is a much more small business friendly country than the united states, rental rates are far cheaper in the gold coast/northern NSW than coastal california not even factoring in the exchange rate. even if you assume a finished board is $350 AUD in australia and 350 USD in america its automatically roughly 20-30% less expensive to sell the same board in the united states.

also lower environmental regulations in OZ compared to california.

Australia is a far far better value than many americans think. After having lived in both places id say australia kills california in terms of value and cost on anything except booze. groceries are far cheaper, rent is cheaper, and even eating at restaurants is cheaper when you factor in no additional tax or tips...

now im not sure how many people have bought in australia recently but only kooks pretty much pay full price for a board. its easy to get 75-125 bones off just by asking the manager what type of deal they can give. Anecdotally in california shops wouldnt even turn a profit at all at that much of a discount on a board.
 

ULUSURFER

Gerry Lopez status
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Ok, so you quote $665 + US $55 = US$720 for a board purchased (and I think you mean manufactured) in America. A US worker who earns say US$80k salary in the same sort of job in Australia would expect to earn roughly AU$80k in Oz.

So from a consumer point of view boards are cheaper in the USA than Aus when wages are taken into account. i.e a US worker could afford to buy more surfboards than their australian counterpart. When the extremely high cost of australian residential property is taken into account and the less favourable $AU exchange rate for buying those necessary imported household items, the australian resident would have even less spare money for surfboards.

Despite the higher wages the local US surfboard industry still manages to produce boards locally for US$720. So your suggestion that it costs far more to build in US due OSHA environmental regulations is not adding up. Barry Snyder said that there must be something like 50 shaping machines in Oceanside. I'm not saying it is easy to make a profit from surfboards, but that is the same everywhere.

As for the AU exchange rate advantage is $150 really a lot when the cost of shipping from the other side of the planet is taken into account? How is JS going to manage the lead time for custom built in Aus shipped to US? I stand by my statement that Southern California is the mecca for locally built PU/PE - hotbed of world class shapers, local glass shops. What Greg Griffin says makes sense - JS is
having lived in both places the surfboard mecaa of the gold coast is far cheaper than anywhere in coastal california. Residential property prices aren't even close. I consider oceanside the equivalent of west tweed but twice the cost.

Wages for aussies are far higher than what most californians make. Quivers of an average aussie punter dwarf what guys here have. Standard of living for an aussie making $80k aud is way way higher than the equivalent californian making $80k USD.

I know for a fact the wholesale price on DHD's are over $500 and retail at $650ish here. Not sure what the manufacturing cost would be but i cant imagine less than about $300.

this still doesn't excuse JS from getting their boards made here. They could partner with epoxy pro/XTR to make hyfi and find a good PU shop to make the boards here. We have no shortage of quality craftsmen here that can get the job done. On the other hand JS does all their own work in OZ...they shape, glass, spray, sand at their own factory not contract work. That allows them to control each step of the process and reduce costs and suppliers. They already have the sunk cost of the factory so they may as well use it.

My only other thought is that JS burned some bridges with people here and is having trouble getting guys to do his work for him.
 

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
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...
but I'd argue wages, generally, are higher and more evenly distributed in Aus compared to USA.
Yes, the USA does have a reputation for economic inequality compared to Aus, particularly when things such as healthcare is take into account. Livability is slipping here though, one thing that COVID exposed is the increasing casualisation of our workforce i.e the number of workers who get by on multiple part time jobs.
 

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
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having lived in both places the surfboard mecaa of the gold coast is far cheaper than anywhere in coastal california. Residential property prices aren't even close. I consider oceanside the equivalent of west tweed but twice the cost.

Wages for aussies are far higher than what most californians make. Quivers of an average aussie punter dwarf what guys here have. Standard of living for an aussie making $80k aud is way way higher than the equivalent californian making $80k USD.

I know for a fact the wholesale price on DHD's are over $500 and retail at $650ish here. Not sure what the manufacturing cost would be but i cant imagine less than about $300.

this still doesn't excuse JS from getting their boards made here. They could partner with epoxy pro/XTR to make hyfi and find a good PU shop to make the boards here. We have no shortage of quality craftsmen here that can get the job done. On the other hand JS does all their own work in OZ...they shape, glass, spray, sand at their own factory not contract work. That allows them to control each step of the process and reduce costs and suppliers. They already have the sunk cost of the factory so they may as well use it.

My only other thought is that JS burned some bridges with people here and is having trouble getting guys to do his work for him.
good point, the Gold Coast would be the second mecca of locally designed and built pu/pe. We are going to have to continue to disagree on some of the economics.

Seems like we have some agreement on JS not getting their act together for building locally. Although I am going to disagree yet again on that they should be making hyfi locally - that is asking too much. The surfboard industry is very mature, the shaping machine has been around for years, resin continues to be spread with a squeegee and we have now arrived at a situation where the top brands in both US and Aus get almost all their epoxy boards built in asia. I suspect a mixture of economic and local workers being in a position to turn down epoxy work in favour of the more user friendly polyester.
 

ULUSURFER

Gerry Lopez status
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good point, the Gold Coast would be the second mecca of locally designed and built pu/pe. We are going to have to continue to disagree on some of the economics.

Seems like we have some agreement on JS not getting their act together for building locally. Although I am going to disagree yet again on that they should be making hyfi locally - that is asking too much. The surfboard industry is very mature, the shaping machine has been around for years, resin continues to be spread with a squeegee and we have now arrived at a situation where the top brands in both US and Aus get almost all their epoxy boards built in asia. I suspect a mixture of economic and local workers being in a position to turn down epoxy work in favour of the more user friendly polyester.
we can agree to disagree on the economics of it all and accept that both countries have a pretty good and expensive standard of living.

interestingly enough most companies stock off the rack epoxy is made in Thailand or Vietnam and all the custom epoxy work is done in Australia or USA. Lost has carbon wrap made in San Clemente and in currumbin. JS custom hyfi is made in Australia.

Channel Islands for all the flak it gets does their spine-tek and eps in California and Australia.

the guys who worked at cooly surf (now surfboard empire) used to get the bro deals on carbon wrap from lost for $675 on the currumbin made boards. I’ve heard that the Vietnam carbon wrap is better than the California carbon wrap
 
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SlicedFeet

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Dec 17, 2004
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The fact that they came in and painted over the rat rod grafitti that had been there for over 8 yrs. makes for an
interesting way to enter into the local community....
Looks like The San Diego Reader could become the new predominant Surf Journal in San Diego. Well written article! ...Hear that Stab?

This though speaks volumes;

After 40-plus years in his old location on Cleveland Street, Gary Linden is moving his shop and shaping facility directly across the street from the new J.S. Industries headquarters. He says the new Linden Surfboards home will open in the spring.

“I’m fine with it,” Linden says of the new competition. “If you want a foreign board made overseas or a hand-shaped board made locally you now have a choice.” Besides, says Linden, business is good for everyone. “Nobody is hurting. I don’t see why anyone should be complaining. Like anything, it is not correct to blame the supplier. It’s like drugs or anything else, you should always look at the consumer. Nobody is forcing anything down anyone’s throat. I sent a message to them and said ‘Let’s collaborate.’”
 
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Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
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we can agree to disagree on the economics of it all and accept that both countries have a pretty good and expensive standard of living.
...
I can agree with that!

Ok, so if custom epoxy is typically done locally, then JS should be able to offer custom hify built in California too.

CI's spine-tek is made using Shapers pre-fabricated composite strip and designed for ease of installation, so that would help make local build feasible. Although the local builders would still have to deal with the longer set time and tougher sand job of epoxy. Carbon wrap looks fairly simple too - no expensive sandwich builds like what firewire and surftech use.

CI also offered (maybe still do) their flex bar build locally, this is a semi sandwich build. Although it sounds like they weren't making money on it, but just wanted to offer it to keep the locally built tech alive. It is a nice thing to do and possible because not many are going to order it.

Just looked at the JS website for custom order hify - same price as stock imported - I wonder if they too would be doing that build not for profit, but to keep the tech alive in the hands of pros and discerning consumers? Again a good thing to do. Possible if not many order it - the 12 to 14 week build time they quote for custom hyfi would help that!
 

griffinsurfboard

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having lived in both places the surfboard mecaa of the gold coast is far cheaper than anywhere in coastal california. Residential property prices aren't even close. I consider oceanside the equivalent of west tweed but twice the cost.

Wages for aussies are far higher than what most californians make. Quivers of an average aussie punter dwarf what guys here have. Standard of living for an aussie making $80k aud is way way higher than the equivalent californian making $80k USD.

I know for a fact the wholesale price on DHD's are over $500 and retail at $650ish here. Not sure what the manufacturing cost would be but i cant imagine less than about $300.

this still doesn't excuse JS from getting their boards made here. They could partner with epoxy pro/XTR to make hyfi and find a good PU shop to make the boards here. We have no shortage of quality craftsmen here that can get the job done. On the other hand JS does all their own work in OZ...they shape, glass, spray, sand at their own factory not contract work. That allows them to control each step of the process and reduce costs and suppliers. They already have the sunk cost of the factory so they may as well use it.

My only other thought is that JS burned some bridges with people here and is having trouble getting guys to do his work for him.
in response to burning bridges

I saw the 4 sample boards of a respected label sent to a new licensee , the epoxy one was done by a much heralded glass shop
it was the worst glass job I’ve seen
when the main licensee came to check out the shop of the new licensee he basically laughed about that board
Possibly JS wants to avoid this variable
 

casa_mugrienta

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I know this is heresy, but I have casually seen enough glaring QC issues with XTR both in my own orders and other orders that I don't think it would be a viable option for HyFi contract.