Unreal. That’s like the Canadian Mein Kampf!! Moderators purge this Nazi ideology from our midsts!
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JORDAN PETERSON INTERVIEW LEAVES PIERS MORGAN SPEECHLESS ON VLADIMIR PUTIN!!!
- Thread starter ChessPlayer
- Start date
TLDNRAnd?
Note, you are basically talking about most of humankind when you reference "weak people". lol.
I get what you're saying there and agree. But fanaticism doesn't apply to most people.
What is particularly unhealthy about JP's advice?
I Googled a summary of his book 12 rules for life and pulled it from this:
Book Summary - Beyond Order: 12 More Rules For Life
In this Beyond Order summary, you'll get an overview of 12 rules to help you embrace chaos and avoid rigidity in times of turbulence.readingraphics.com
What would you say is unhealthy about "weak people" applying this sort of stuff to life:
Rule 1: Balance Social Convention and Creative Change
“Do not carelessly denigrate social institutions or creative achievement”
Our sanity and mental health depend on both (i) our internal psychological health and (ii) our external social institutions.
Psychologists like Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung theorized that every individual has various sub-personalities. Freud suggested that every person has an ID, ego and superego. Jung suggested that every individual has an ego, a shadow (a dark side), an anima/animus (a repressed contrasexual side) and an ideal self. We’re well-adjusted when these inner personalities are balanced and integrated.
As a clinical psychologist, Peterson found that people’s social lives are also crucial for their mental health. This includes factors like: being educated to their intellectual capacity, using free time meaningfully, being free from major health/economic problems, having friends, a stable intimate relationship, close familial relationships, concrete plans for the future, and a financially-stable job or career.
One of Peterson’s socially-inept client became more socially integrated after he joined a photography club. Photography provided an outlet for his creative growth/expression, while the club offered a structured way for him to engage others.
Why social institutions matter
Human interactions help us to organize our thoughts, and give structure and meaning to our world.
• To communicate effectively, we must present our thoughts coherently, and prioritize important points over trivial ones. As we discuss our past experiences, current concerns or future plans, we figure out where we stand, where we’re headed and why.
• Through our communications, we also form implicit social contracts on what’s important, valuable and acceptable. When we step out of line, others will advise, criticize, cajole or laugh at us to bring us back on track. Such boundaries reduce the infinite possibilities into a comprehensible range of choices/behaviors.
To stay sane, we need social institutions. We need to balance conservatism with creative transformation.
• We need rules and constraints for order and stability. Yet, we also need creativity and change for growth and regeneration. The key is to know when to follow convention and when to reject social pressure. Strike a balance:
(i) Understand/respect the rules in social institutions; and
(ii) Dare to break the rules if it serves the greater good.
If you don’t recognize the value and necessity of rules, then you’re likely to violate them carelessly. However, if you’ve mastered the rules and can follow them with discipline, then you’re in a position to bend/break the rules morally to abide by the spirit (if not the letter) of the law.
• No matter how accomplished you are, stay humble. Assume there’s always more to learn, and interact regularly with different types of people to stretch your mind. Get the “conservative type” to implement tried-and-tested methods, and engage the “liberal type” to identify and replace outdated practices.
• Don’t confuse power with authority. People who exert power over others use threats or punishments to compel others. People with authority gain real influence due to their ability to solve problems. Build strong peer relationships based on reciprocity, e.g. respect others and demand respect, show up for others and trust them to show up for you.
Rule 2: Keep Moving Toward your Ideal Self
“Imagine who you could be, and then aim single-mindedly at that”
We are complex beings with dormant potential and are constantly changing. To answer the question “Who am I?” you must consider who you are now as well as who you could be. Choose the best-possible ideal self and start moving toward that aspiration.
Rule 3: Don’t Avoid the Small Issues
“Do not hide unwanted things in the fog”
Don’t dismiss the small daily irritations as mere trivialities, or allow the small things to add up. It’s like trying to hide unwanted things in a fog so you won’t see them—eventually you’ll stumble over something and hurt yourself. In our full Beyond Order summary, we’ll elaborate on what it means to avoid self-deception, get clear on what you want/need and have the courage to confront your problems.
Rule 4: Opportunities Lie Where Responsibility has been Abdicated
“Notice that opportunity lurks where responsibility has been abdicated”
The most positive and fulfilling experiences come from pursuing a meaningful goal, or from achieving something worthwhile. Look for opportunities where responsibility has been abdicated—both to add value by doing what others haven’t done, and to listen to your conscience (when you’re the one who has abdicated responsibility).
Rule 5: Don’t Betray Your Values and Conscience
“Do not do what you hate”
Always follow your conscience and deeply-held values. Refuse to do anything that would cause you to hate yourself or feel self-contempt. Learn the risks of acting vs not acting, when to make a stand and fortify your position.
Rule 6: Cast Ideologies Aside
“Abandon ideology”
Beware of ideologies that assign a single cause (e.g. power, sex, money) for a complex problem. The reality is never so simple. Abandon ideologies and stop looking for external factors to blame. Instead, look inward and take responsibility for your situation.
Rule 7: To Develop Yourself, Commit to Something Fully
“Work as hard as you possibly can on at least one thing and see what happens”
Committing to a goal (be it your job, studies, or relationship) is crucial for growth and maturation. Choose a direction in life, work as hard as possible on at least one thing, and see what happens from there. Subjugate yourself to the relevant social or professional rules, and persist in face of challenges to develop your discipline and personality. You become a true master when you master and transcend the dogma.
Rule 8: Create Something Beautiful
“Try to make one room in your home as beautiful as possible”
Most adults have lost the child-like wonder we used to possess. Start by making at least 1 room in your house as beautiful as possible. By creating 1 beautiful thing, you’ll form a relationship with beauty that can be extended to all areas of your life.
Rule 9: Clear Up Unresolved Issues From the Past
“If old memories still upset you, write them down carefully and completely”
To orientate yourself in the world, you need a map of where you’ve been, where you are now, and where you’re going. Unresolved issues in the past can affect the accuracy of your map, to negatively affect your current journey. If a memory from the past still upsets you, write down the incident in detail to bring the murky events into focus, come come to terms with what happened, and strip the memory of its horror.
Rule 10: Sustain Romance with Planning and Effort
“Plan and work diligently to maintain the romance in your relationship”
When 2 people first fall in love, they see only the best in each other. Although the magic eventually fades, it’s possible to sustain the romance with proper planning and real work. Find out why you can’t find a perfect soulmate, and what it takes to grow and mature as a couple and strengthen your relationship.
Rule 11: Don’t Succumb to Resentment, Deceit or Arrogance
“Do not allow yourself to become resentful, deceitful, or arrogant”
All of us have a dark side. That’s why people commit crimes, wage wars, rape, cheat and lie. According to Peterson, evil comes from resentment, deceit and arrogance. Master your malevolence, recognize that duality exists in everything, and bad things can befall anyone.
Rule 12: Stay Grateful In Spite of your Suffering
“Be grateful in spite of your suffering”
Suffering is inevitable. Yet, humans have the capacity to transcend our suffering, and to stay hopeful in the darkest of times. In face of tragedy, seek courage and inspiration from others who have risen above their loss and despair. Be grateful for what you still have and what you may still be given.
Yup. Just awful, awful stuff.
#7 really makes my blood boil:
Rule 7: To Develop Yourself, Commit to Something Fully
“Work as hard as you possibly can on at least one thing and see what happens”
I don't know if there's anything unhealthy about him - nor do I know of him other than on this thread. Nothing about the above strikes me as either unhealthy or particularly unique. It's almost Oprahesque.And?
Note, you are basically talking about most of humankind when you reference "weak people". lol.
I get what you're saying there and agree. But fanaticism doesn't apply to most people.
What is particularly unhealthy about JP's advice?
I Googled a summary of his book 12 rules for life and pulled it from this:
Book Summary - Beyond Order: 12 More Rules For Life
In this Beyond Order summary, you'll get an overview of 12 rules to help you embrace chaos and avoid rigidity in times of turbulence.
What would you say is unhealthy about "weak people" applying this sort of stuff to life:
Rule 1: Balance Social Convention and Creative Change
“Do not carelessly denigrate social institutions or creative achievement”
Our sanity and mental health depend on both (i) our internal psychological health and (ii) our external social institutions.
Psychologists like Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung theorized that every individual has various sub-personalities. Freud suggested that every person has an ID, ego and superego. Jung suggested that every individual has an ego, a shadow (a dark side), an anima/animus (a repressed contrasexual side) and an ideal self. We’re well-adjusted when these inner personalities are balanced and integrated.
As a clinical psychologist, Peterson found that people’s social lives are also crucial for their mental health. This includes factors like: being educated to their intellectual capacity, using free time meaningfully, being free from major health/economic problems, having friends, a stable intimate relationship, close familial relationships, concrete plans for the future, and a financially-stable job or career.
One of Peterson’s socially-inept client became more socially integrated after he joined a photography club. Photography provided an outlet for his creative growth/expression, while the club offered a structured way for him to engage others.
Why social institutions matter
Human interactions help us to organize our thoughts, and give structure and meaning to our world.
• To communicate effectively, we must present our thoughts coherently, and prioritize important points over trivial ones. As we discuss our past experiences, current concerns or future plans, we figure out where we stand, where we’re headed and why.
• Through our communications, we also form implicit social contracts on what’s important, valuable and acceptable. When we step out of line, others will advise, criticize, cajole or laugh at us to bring us back on track. Such boundaries reduce the infinite possibilities into a comprehensible range of choices/behaviors.
To stay sane, we need social institutions. We need to balance conservatism with creative transformation.
• We need rules and constraints for order and stability. Yet, we also need creativity and change for growth and regeneration. The key is to know when to follow convention and when to reject social pressure. Strike a balance:
(i) Understand/respect the rules in social institutions; and
(ii) Dare to break the rules if it serves the greater good.
If you don’t recognize the value and necessity of rules, then you’re likely to violate them carelessly. However, if you’ve mastered the rules and can follow them with discipline, then you’re in a position to bend/break the rules morally to abide by the spirit (if not the letter) of the law.
• No matter how accomplished you are, stay humble. Assume there’s always more to learn, and interact regularly with different types of people to stretch your mind. Get the “conservative type” to implement tried-and-tested methods, and engage the “liberal type” to identify and replace outdated practices.
• Don’t confuse power with authority. People who exert power over others use threats or punishments to compel others. People with authority gain real influence due to their ability to solve problems. Build strong peer relationships based on reciprocity, e.g. respect others and demand respect, show up for others and trust them to show up for you.
Rule 2: Keep Moving Toward your Ideal Self
“Imagine who you could be, and then aim single-mindedly at that”
We are complex beings with dormant potential and are constantly changing. To answer the question “Who am I?” you must consider who you are now as well as who you could be. Choose the best-possible ideal self and start moving toward that aspiration.
Rule 3: Don’t Avoid the Small Issues
“Do not hide unwanted things in the fog”
Don’t dismiss the small daily irritations as mere trivialities, or allow the small things to add up. It’s like trying to hide unwanted things in a fog so you won’t see them—eventually you’ll stumble over something and hurt yourself. In our full Beyond Order summary, we’ll elaborate on what it means to avoid self-deception, get clear on what you want/need and have the courage to confront your problems.
Rule 4: Opportunities Lie Where Responsibility has been Abdicated
“Notice that opportunity lurks where responsibility has been abdicated”
The most positive and fulfilling experiences come from pursuing a meaningful goal, or from achieving something worthwhile. Look for opportunities where responsibility has been abdicated—both to add value by doing what others haven’t done, and to listen to your conscience (when you’re the one who has abdicated responsibility).
Rule 5: Don’t Betray Your Values and Conscience
“Do not do what you hate”
Always follow your conscience and deeply-held values. Refuse to do anything that would cause you to hate yourself or feel self-contempt. Learn the risks of acting vs not acting, when to make a stand and fortify your position.
Rule 6: Cast Ideologies Aside
“Abandon ideology”
Beware of ideologies that assign a single cause (e.g. power, sex, money) for a complex problem. The reality is never so simple. Abandon ideologies and stop looking for external factors to blame. Instead, look inward and take responsibility for your situation.
Rule 7: To Develop Yourself, Commit to Something Fully
“Work as hard as you possibly can on at least one thing and see what happens”
Committing to a goal (be it your job, studies, or relationship) is crucial for growth and maturation. Choose a direction in life, work as hard as possible on at least one thing, and see what happens from there. Subjugate yourself to the relevant social or professional rules, and persist in face of challenges to develop your discipline and personality. You become a true master when you master and transcend the dogma.
Rule 8: Create Something Beautiful
“Try to make one room in your home as beautiful as possible”
Most adults have lost the child-like wonder we used to possess. Start by making at least 1 room in your house as beautiful as possible. By creating 1 beautiful thing, you’ll form a relationship with beauty that can be extended to all areas of your life.
Rule 9: Clear Up Unresolved Issues From the Past
“If old memories still upset you, write them down carefully and completely”
To orientate yourself in the world, you need a map of where you’ve been, where you are now, and where you’re going. Unresolved issues in the past can affect the accuracy of your map, to negatively affect your current journey. If a memory from the past still upsets you, write down the incident in detail to bring the murky events into focus, come come to terms with what happened, and strip the memory of its horror.
Rule 10: Sustain Romance with Planning and Effort
“Plan and work diligently to maintain the romance in your relationship”
When 2 people first fall in love, they see only the best in each other. Although the magic eventually fades, it’s possible to sustain the romance with proper planning and real work. Find out why you can’t find a perfect soulmate, and what it takes to grow and mature as a couple and strengthen your relationship.
Rule 11: Don’t Succumb to Resentment, Deceit or Arrogance
“Do not allow yourself to become resentful, deceitful, or arrogant”
All of us have a dark side. That’s why people commit crimes, wage wars, rape, cheat and lie. According to Peterson, evil comes from resentment, deceit and arrogance. Master your malevolence, recognize that duality exists in everything, and bad things can befall anyone.
Rule 12: Stay Grateful In Spite of your Suffering
“Be grateful in spite of your suffering”
Suffering is inevitable. Yet, humans have the capacity to transcend our suffering, and to stay hopeful in the darkest of times. In face of tragedy, seek courage and inspiration from others who have risen above their loss and despair. Be grateful for what you still have and what you may still be given.
It's the fanatical following that's unhealthy. I have benefitted from advice given by people over my lifetime, yet I don't follow any of them around praising them and telling the world how smart they are.
There are tons of these JP threads on here. And there are people on this thread that have literally hundreds of posts re the evil of JP. You really can't mention the fanatical following without mentioning the fanatical opposition. I mean...
which group is more fanatical?
Like I said, his groupies only quote the benign things he says while ignoring the massive bullshit which is bulk of what made him famous.
It never fails.
I've taken part in none of them that I recall.There are tons of these JP threads on here. And there are people on this thread that have literally hundreds of posts re the evil of JP. You really can't mention the fanatical following without mentioning the fanatical opposition. I mean...
which group is more fanatical?
I looked at the youtube comments and saw a lot of ball licking, and no name calling. Who exactly is fanatically opposed to him? Besides, following someone's word day in and day out takes a lot more effort than saying a guy sucks and not doing anything else.
I don't trust guys who almost start crying in public.
It's a tell.
I don't do canned jokes but my favorite canned joke at school when the students give me sh!t, is to say, "have you guys ever made your teacher cry?"
And they always say "YEAH! We made our sub cry! Ha! Ha!"
Then I say "You guys will NEVER make me cry! Never!"
Then I pause, maybe walking over into the corner, and then I look at them start to get choked up like JP.
It's a tell.
I don't do canned jokes but my favorite canned joke at school when the students give me sh!t, is to say, "have you guys ever made your teacher cry?"
And they always say "YEAH! We made our sub cry! Ha! Ha!"
Then I say "You guys will NEVER make me cry! Never!"
Then I pause, maybe walking over into the corner, and then I look at them start to get choked up like JP.
Ya gotta love that the American First anti-intellectual fuck your feelings crowd that puts masculinity on a pedestal is lining up in defense of a Canadian Pseudo-Intellectual who’s publicly crying for the plight of the incels. You really can’t make this kinda sh!t up. Truly strange times.
The right likes him because people on the far left don't like him.
IF you are a guy and you are not getting laid, that gives you tons of time to train and get good at stuff.
Then you don't even care about stupid girls.
That should be the goal.
Not caring.
IF you are a guy and you are not getting laid, that gives you tons of time to train and get good at stuff.
Then you don't even care about stupid girls.
That should be the goal.
Not caring.
Most single guys go through periods of not getting laid. The usual response is to develop strategies to actually get laid. Whining about not getting any pussy is not a good strategy.
It’s pretty much worthless fluff that’s really only unhealthy for the wallets of the naïve.
Do you think it’s good stuff?
That's easy is you measure how much time one spends with his BS.There are tons of these JP threads on here. And there are people on this thread that have literally hundreds of posts re the evil of JP. You really can't mention the fanatical following without mentioning the fanatical opposition. I mean...
which group is more fanatical?
The cultists, apparently from the comments, spend many hours watching and listening and reflecting on what he says. The anti JP-ers not so much.