Is this normal?

Goodfish

Michael Peterson status
Feb 22, 2014
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Yeah, it's frustrating how the shipping company's purport to offer a service that you pay a hefty fee for, but then they put all these conditions and restraints on you when your goods get damaged whilst under their care! I don't know many businesses like it - "Look, you paid for this service, we messed up, but it's on you unless you do this and this within this time. Oh, and we won't refund you for the shipping because the goods got delivered even though they were damaged. Thanks!"
 

Goodfish

Michael Peterson status
Feb 22, 2014
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Sigh...

"We reviewed the claim(s) you filed on December 1, 2019. Unfortunately, we had to deny your claim(s). This decision was made because if an item is materially similar to the seller's description, we do not consider it to be significantly not as described."

This is in opposition to 7.1 of PayPal's Buyer Protection policy which states:

"An item is "Significantly Not as Described" (SNAD) if it is materially different from what the Seller described on its website or in the item listing. Here are some examples:

The item was materially damaged during shipment."

I even quoted this point in my original claim to PayPal. I have no idea how they can disregard it with the evidence I sent them. I called the regional office to talk to them the other day, but I don't know who is handling this claim. My guess it would be the office in Australia as that's where Gary's PayPal would be.

Anyway, I guess this saga is on it's last legs, but I'll give them a call tomorrow...
 

Goodfish

Michael Peterson status
Feb 22, 2014
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Just spoke to PayPal. The reason that I'm not protected by their Buyer Protection Agreement is an absolute f&#!er! that applies to all of us who order boards and pay for them using PayPal.

On the list of ineligible items in 7.3 of their user agreement it says that you can't apply for damage compensation for any custom items! 'Signigicantly Not As Described' is what damage falls under, but "Significantly Not As Described Claims for custom made items" is inelgibile!

That means whenever any of us pay for a custom-made board through PayPal, then unscrupulousness shapers can shaft us up the shitter. We are offered no protection.
 
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jkb

Tom Curren status
Feb 22, 2005
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Central California
I guess none of us will ever pay for custom boards through PayPal again.

What would be another option? Just credit card?
You can always ask if they take Zelle, Apple Pay, Venmo, or something similar........although I don't know any of their policies when it comes to damaged goods whilst shipping. Of course that would require a shaper to be operating in modern day business practices as well.

Probably best to use credit card and dispute the charge if it doesn't come as expected.
 

surfwhere

Gerry Lopez status
Aug 5, 2008
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In same state I used credit card with on line invoice pay and very recent Stretch ask if I wanted to use paypal said no so I wrote and sent a check.
PayPal, check ,credit card, cash, gold, blood diamonds, beers, favors....

no form of payment matters if service decisions in regards to unsatisfied customers are made for short term business gains. The business has decided to deal with what consequences may come from them.

What if Stretch cashes your check and never builds that board?
 
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rts265

Phil Edwards status
Oct 19, 2007
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Stretch will deliver. Quality product. Worth the extra money IMO.

It sucks when a board comes damaged. I've had boards come dinged that were repairable - shaper kind of just shrugged it off. I had a board come with a stripped box - guy in charge offered to pay for any repairs. IDK how stretch would handle it - I've always wondered who's responsibility it is once the shipper takes it? This story sucks - shaper and customer both seem to be losing on this - shipper damaged the board.

Is insurance an option when shipping boards? I always wonder if I should ask but in the end am too cheap to even ask
 

surfwhere

Gerry Lopez status
Aug 5, 2008
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Stretch will deliver. Quality product. Worth the extra money IMO.
Stretch is not being questioned just used in the example I quoted.The question is what can you do if someone takes your money, doesn't fulfill promise and refuses to return the money .....

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rowjimmytour

Tom Curren status
Feb 7, 2009
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Stretch is not being questioned just used in the example I quoted.The question is what can you do if someone takes your money, doesn't fulfill promise and refuses to return the money .....

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A check you could get your bank to dispute I guess just like credit card and hopebm for bezt but feel small claim court might be the only answer
 

surfwhere

Gerry Lopez status
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Anyone know if you can sue delivery company in small claim court?
PayPal shields themselves so it's between customer and manufacturer of custom built goods.

Insurance isn't expensive but falls into the freight claim world which we've seen can be a pretty rough place. The manufacturer is usually going to handle the freight/insurance claim via bill of lading.

You can sue anyone in small claims court. You have to pay a fee. The bill of lading also likely decide who the proper defendant would be. In this situation the defendant may just be the shaper since he was the one filing the claim. Possible the customer could sue both but I think the freight provider has already lived up to their obligations. Legal obligations are now with the shaper if a court would show that.
 

racer1

Tom Curren status
Apr 16, 2014
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That paypal rule makes sense for them. A custom product can go haywire (we all know), so I'm sure they had issues in the beginning.

I work in the digital marketing world. Some of the services I work with are completely anonymous and I'm buying/selling to people all over the planet. We are all scared of charge backs via Paypal because once you get 3, you are fucked by Paypal. They hold all your payments for 30 days after that. ALL your payments. Imagine if a shaper had to wait 30 days to get his money to pay everybody?
 

Retropete

Phil Edwards status
Jan 20, 2006
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Sunny Coast Qld Australia
Just spoke to PayPal. The reason that I'm not protected by their Buyer Protection Agreement is an absolute f&#!er! that applies to all of us who order boards and pay for them using PayPal.

On the list of ineligible items in 7.3 of their user agreement it says that you can't apply for damage compensation for any custom items! 'Signigicantly Not As Described' is what damage falls under, but "Significantly Not As Described Claims for custom made items" is inelgibile!

That means whenever any of us pay for a custom-made board through PayPal, then unscrupulousness shapers can shaft us up the shitter. We are offered no protection.
Your last paragraph I see as PayPal can shaft you up the shitter on the protection by wriggling out of paying since it is a custom.
I wonder how many shapers who ship boards would even be aware of this clause?
 

Goodfish

Michael Peterson status
Feb 22, 2014
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I think they all probably are, no? Seems like Gary knew this from the start which is why he offered me nothing to mitigate the loss; he knew he was covered, so why bother?

I contacted my bank about trying to claim on my card that was used to pay through PayPal, but they got back to me and said that they don't accept cases like this as it's through a third party.

I think the lesson is get clarity from the shaper before you take the plunge. Try to pay by credit card or something that is not PayPal, and always make sure the shaper puts the full price of the board on the invoice and gets insurance. I'd pay an extra $100 to have not had to go through all this sh!t, that's for sure!
 

ZeeHawk

OTF status
Apr 13, 2018
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Try to pay by credit card or something that is not PayPal
Agreed. PayPal is super apathetic when it comes to disputes. I run a service based business and in '06 had a client that wanted to pay by card. PayPal was the only real choice back then and I figured, why not try. Client was a total weasel and claimed he didn't get what was agreed to even though I had a thorough contract, signed by both parties, which explained what the client was getting. PayPal sided with the client explaining that they couldn't get into the details of the project and that it protected the clients first. I think the client knew this was their policy. Haven't touched them since.
 

Goodfish

Michael Peterson status
Feb 22, 2014
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That's the annoying thing. I kept all my emails very civil, and even tried to appeal to his sense of justice, but he didn't even reply to the last two. I'm sure if he was ever in a similar situation he wouldn't just accept it. I just can't see how he manages to balance his response with his own conscience. That sounds a bit over-the-top, but if I ran my own business I wouldn't just let my customers take the hit if something went wrong.