Is Puerto Rico Trump's Katrina?

Surfdog

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$kully

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Surfdog said:
These clueless, hair-trigger, instant gratification Dems have no idea the logistics it takes to get literally tons of supplies to an isolated island over 1000 miles away from Mainland USA into the few accessible ports and cleared runways there. It would take a few days alone to clear/make airport runways safe for large aircraft. Large ships take a few days at least to get there from any regional Naval ports on the E. Coast.

For the geographic clueless, PR is a isolated territory 1000 miles away, and not a mainland state that can get truckloads of supplies and water in hours. We have no other territories in the region with supplies stored at a moments noticed to just drive in on trucks, let alone boat or planeload in.

Kauai was lucky with Iniki, at least they had Oahu and a large Naval and military presence less than 100 miles away to send supplies over immediately, and it still took weeks to get some semblance of power restored.

PR was a mess to begin with, and it just got a lot worse for them. But it looks like military response is filling in the last few days. Those first few days were hell on earth there, I'm sure. They still have a long slog ahead, but when you're 1000 miles from mainland USA with no other nearby sources of supplies, that's going to take a few days to iron out, no matter who was "in charge". 3 disasters back to back to back is lot to ask of ANY emergency response system, no matter how much $$$ you throw at it. REALITY.
Mark Cuban doesn't seem to have a problem flying the Dallas Mavericks team jet into Puerto Rico. It's a 2 1/2hr flight from Miami. Stop making excuses and acting like Puerto Ricans are stranded on the moon.
 

$kully

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Surfdog said:
3 disasters back to back to back is lot to ask of ANY emergency response system, no matter how much $$$ you throw at it. REALITY.
Yet somehow we're supposed to believe that hurricanes happen and this is normal because the climate isn't changing. Just another La Nina year right? :rolleyes:'

But somehow we're supposed to be okay that our leadership wasn't prepared for it. Hard to have it both ways isn't it?
 

Surfdog

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frvcvs said:
Surfdog said:
3 disasters back to back to back is lot to ask of ANY emergency response system, no matter how much $$$ you throw at it. REALITY.
Yet somehow we're supposed to believe that hurricanes happen and this is normal because the climate isn't changing. Just another La Nina year right? :rolleyes:'

But somehow we're supposed to be okay that our leadership wasn't prepared for it. Hard to have it both ways isn't it?
FIrst year in the last 12 years we've had ANY hurricanes make landfall in the USA. Some years are worse than others. Some much worse. This is just another bad year. We've skated the last 12 years, and making up for it this year. Every year there's a potential for a bad hurricane season, except maybe less in El Nino years on the E. Coast.

Do I need to dig up hurricane history the last 100-125 years to show you worse seasons and damage than this year?
 

Surfdog

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frvcvs said:
Surfdog said:
These clueless, hair-trigger, instant gratification Dems have no idea the logistics it takes to get literally tons of supplies to an isolated island over 1000 miles away from Mainland USA into the few accessible ports and cleared runways there. It would take a few days alone to clear/make airport runways safe for large aircraft. Large ships take a few days at least to get there from any regional Naval ports on the E. Coast.

For the geographic clueless, PR is a isolated territory 1000 miles away, and not a mainland state that can get truckloads of supplies and water in hours. We have no other territories in the region with supplies stored at a moments noticed to just drive in on trucks, let alone boat or planeload in.

Kauai was lucky with Iniki, at least they had Oahu and a large Naval and military presence less than 100 miles away to send supplies over immediately, and it still took weeks to get some semblance of power restored.

PR was a mess to begin with, and it just got a lot worse for them. But it looks like military response is filling in the last few days. Those first few days were hell on earth there, I'm sure. They still have a long slog ahead, but when you're 1000 miles from mainland USA with no other nearby sources of supplies, that's going to take a few days to iron out, no matter who was "in charge". 3 disasters back to back to back is lot to ask of ANY emergency response system, no matter how much $$$ you throw at it. REALITY.
Mark Cuban doesn't seem to have a problem flying the Dallas Mavericks team jet into Puerto Rico. It's a 2 1/2hr flight from Miami. Stop making excuses and acting like Puerto Ricans are stranded on the moon.
I guarantee he didn't fly into Puerto Rico the day or 2 after the hurricane hit. He just lent his plane a day ago, 2 days AFTER the military was already landing supplies. But ya, celebs get the headlines, while the grunts in the military get no credit when they're already there, as usual. BFD.
 

sizzld1

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Trump is an absolute piece of sh!t for this one. But hey, at least he's more honest than the rest of his admin about their reasoning:

Speaking with reporters on Wednesday afternoon, the president cited business interests as the reason for refusing calls from lawmakers and activists to allow international organizations and governments to ship aid to the island.

Trump said he was initially considering whether to implement a temporary waiver of the Jones Act to allow it, but decided against doing so as "a lot of people that work in the shipping industry…don’t want the Jones Act lifted."
....
Meanwhile, Puerto Rico is facing disastrous conditions in the wake of Hurricane Maria, including flooding and rising temperatures. The U.S. military reports nearly 44 percent of the island (1.5 million people), are without clean drinking water, while 97 percent of Puerto Rico remains without power.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/donald-trump-refuses-send-more-195456324.html

 

Surfdog

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sizzld1 said:
Trump is an absolute piece of sh!t for this one. But hey, at least he's more honest than the rest of his admin about their reasoning:

Speaking with reporters on Wednesday afternoon, the president cited business interests as the reason for refusing calls from lawmakers and activists to allow international organizations and governments to ship aid to the island.

Trump said he was initially considering whether to implement a temporary waiver of the Jones Act to allow it, but decided against doing so as "a lot of people that work in the shipping industry…don’t want the Jones Act lifted."
....
Meanwhile, Puerto Rico is facing disastrous conditions in the wake of Hurricane Maria, including flooding and rising temperatures. The U.S. military reports nearly 44 percent of the island (1.5 million people), are without clean drinking water, while 97 percent of Puerto Rico remains without power.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/donald-trump-refuses-send-more-195456324.html
You forgot this at the end....

Proponents of the Jones Act say that without it, the country would be forced to rely on cheaper international ships operated by foreign workers and put American vessels in a more crowded and less efficient shipping environment.

Temporarily waiving the Jones Act for Puerto Rico "would take American first responders out of the loop and replace them with Filipino or Russian or Chinese crews," Michael Roberts, senior vice president and general counsel at Crowley Maritime Corporation, told The Wall Street Journal Wednesday. "Doing that at a time when many U.S. mariners in this region have had their homes damaged, their lives uprooted and now they need to work, to take that away is not something you want to do." :shrug:

AND......

"We are getting help from the federal government, but this is an unprecedented set of circumstances," Puerto Rico’s governor, Ricardo Rosselló, said Wednesday.

But the rest, talk about a one sided hit piece. From the same Newsweek writer that wrote these "unbiased" articles....

donald-trump-impeachment-odds-white-house-james-comey-testimony-removal-bets

donald-trump-approval-rating-worst-president-ever-popularity

donald-trump-impeachment-odds-terrified-removal-resignation

Newsweek. :foreheadslap: They make CNN look pro-Trump.

 

$kully

Duke status
Feb 27, 2009
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sizzld1 said:
Trump is an absolute piece of sh!t for this one. But hey, at least he's more honest than the rest of his admin about their reasoning:

Speaking with reporters on Wednesday afternoon, the president cited business interests as the reason for refusing calls from lawmakers and activists to allow international organizations and governments to ship aid to the island.

Trump said he was initially considering whether to implement a temporary waiver of the Jones Act to allow it, but decided against doing so as "a lot of people that work in the shipping industry…don’t want the Jones Act lifted."
....
Meanwhile, Puerto Rico is facing disastrous conditions in the wake of Hurricane Maria, including flooding and rising temperatures. [size:16pt]The U.S. military reports nearly 44 percent of the island (1.5 million people), are without clean drinking water[/size], while 97 percent of Puerto Rico remains without power.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/donald-trump-refuses-send-more-195456324.html
Added emphasis for those still making excuses for the Dotard in Chief.
 

manbearpig

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May 11, 2009
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Surfdog said:
sizzld1 said:
Trump is an absolute piece of sh!t for this one. But hey, at least he's more honest than the rest of his admin about their reasoning:

Speaking with reporters on Wednesday afternoon, the president cited business interests as the reason for refusing calls from lawmakers and activists to allow international organizations and governments to ship aid to the island.

Trump said he was initially considering whether to implement a temporary waiver of the Jones Act to allow it, but decided against doing so as "a lot of people that work in the shipping industry…don’t want the Jones Act lifted."
....
Meanwhile, Puerto Rico is facing disastrous conditions in the wake of Hurricane Maria, including flooding and rising temperatures. The U.S. military reports nearly 44 percent of the island (1.5 million people), are without clean drinking water, while 97 percent of Puerto Rico remains without power.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/donald-trump-refuses-send-more-195456324.html
You forgot this at the end....

Proponents of the Jones Act say that without it, the country would be forced to rely on cheaper international ships operated by foreign workers and put American vessels in a more crowded and less efficient shipping environment.

Temporarily waiving the Jones Act for Puerto Rico "would take American first responders out of the loop and replace them with Filipino or Russian or Chinese crews," Michael Roberts, senior vice president and general counsel at Crowley Maritime Corporation, told The Wall Street Journal Wednesday. "Doing that at a time when many U.S. mariners in this region have had their homes damaged, their lives uprooted and now they need to work, to take that away is not something you want to do." :shrug:

AND......

"We are getting help from the federal government, but this is an unprecedented set of circumstances," Puerto Rico’s governor, Ricardo Rosselló, said Wednesday.

But the rest, talk about a one sided hit piece. From the same Newsweek writer that wrote these "unbiased" articles....

donald-trump-impeachment-odds-white-house-james-comey-testimony-removal-bets

donald-trump-approval-rating-worst-president-ever-popularity

donald-trump-impeachment-odds-terrified-removal-resignation

Newsweek. :foreheadslap: Then make CNN look pro-Trump.
The goal right now is to clean up and rebuild Puerto Rico. Any help is good help; trump can lift the jones act temporarily to expedite that process. And once things are on their way to being back to normal he can remove that temporary lift

Imagine that, how badass would that actually be?
 

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
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frvcvs said:
sizzld1 said:
Trump is an absolute piece of sh!t for this one. But hey, at least he's more honest than the rest of his admin about their reasoning:

Speaking with reporters on Wednesday afternoon, the president cited business interests as the reason for refusing calls from lawmakers and activists to allow international organizations and governments to ship aid to the island.

Trump said he was initially considering whether to implement a temporary waiver of the Jones Act to allow it, but decided against doing so as "a lot of people that work in the shipping industry…don’t want the Jones Act lifted."
....
Meanwhile, Puerto Rico is facing disastrous conditions in the wake of Hurricane Maria, including flooding and rising temperatures. [size:16pt]The U.S. military reports nearly 44 percent of the island (1.5 million people), are without clean drinking water[/size], while 97 percent of Puerto Rico remains without power.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/donald-trump-refuses-send-more-195456324.html
Added emphasis for those still making excuses for the Dotard in Chief.
I'd like to see you get all 3.4 million people clean drinking water in a few days. With power outages widespread, clean drinking tap water depends on it. I suppose you don't know how tap water is treated and processed, especially in tropic environments? Lots of bacteria grows quickly in the tropics from all types of sources, natural, animal and human. It takes lots of electricity to make that happen on a large scale. PR is wiped out. It will take weeks to get the entire island powered back up.

Best they can do is get the desalinators off the assorted ships going full bore, but that still needs to be transported around the island in big tanker trucks. It would be like half of LA was an on a desert island 1000 miles out and needing water desalinated out the blue for all 3.4 million people all at once. Good luck and hope your near the front of the line.
 

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
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South coast OR
manbearpig said:
Surfdog said:
sizzld1 said:
Trump is an absolute piece of sh!t for this one. But hey, at least he's more honest than the rest of his admin about their reasoning:

Speaking with reporters on Wednesday afternoon, the president cited business interests as the reason for refusing calls from lawmakers and activists to allow international organizations and governments to ship aid to the island.

Trump said he was initially considering whether to implement a temporary waiver of the Jones Act to allow it, but decided against doing so as "a lot of people that work in the shipping industry…don’t want the Jones Act lifted."
....
Meanwhile, Puerto Rico is facing disastrous conditions in the wake of Hurricane Maria, including flooding and rising temperatures. The U.S. military reports nearly 44 percent of the island (1.5 million people), are without clean drinking water, while 97 percent of Puerto Rico remains without power.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/donald-trump-refuses-send-more-195456324.html
You forgot this at the end....

Proponents of the Jones Act say that without it, the country would be forced to rely on cheaper international ships operated by foreign workers and put American vessels in a more crowded and less efficient shipping environment.

Temporarily waiving the Jones Act for Puerto Rico "would take American first responders out of the loop and replace them with Filipino or Russian or Chinese crews," Michael Roberts, senior vice president and general counsel at Crowley Maritime Corporation, told The Wall Street Journal Wednesday. "Doing that at a time when many U.S. mariners in this region have had their homes damaged, their lives uprooted and now they need to work, to take that away is not something you want to do." :shrug:

AND......

"We are getting help from the federal government, but this is an unprecedented set of circumstances," Puerto Rico’s governor, Ricardo Rosselló, said Wednesday.

But the rest, talk about a one sided hit piece. From the same Newsweek writer that wrote these "unbiased" articles....

donald-trump-impeachment-odds-white-house-james-comey-testimony-removal-bets

donald-trump-approval-rating-worst-president-ever-popularity

donald-trump-impeachment-odds-terrified-removal-resignation

Newsweek. :foreheadslap: Then make CNN look pro-Trump.
The goal right now is to clean up and rebuild Puerto Rico. Any help is good help; trump can lift the jones act temporarily to expedite that process. And once things are on their way to being back to normal he can remove that temporary lift

Imagine that, how badass would that actually be?
It might help more? But sounds like it might slow things down too? Right now, initial sustainability needs to be rushed to completion, so most all at least have the basic needs the USA normally provides (clean water, food and shelter). Then other countries can come in to help clean-up and rebuild.
 

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
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For those that doubt my earlier take on the dire need for electricity to get clean water for all in PR.....

>>no-electricity-means-no-clean-water-many-puerto-rico <<

Electricity for clean tap water is a basic need we take way too much for granted, especially when power goes down on a wide spread isolated scale, like what PR is dealing with.

They have no power grid from other states they can just re-route from.

And if you're doubting about bad or worse hurricanes to hit PR and Florida almost 100 years ago, here's just one from 1928 taking a near identical path over PR, with at least 1000 dead.

>> wdrb_weather/2013/09/september-16-1928-the-great-okeechobee-hurricane <<

Great documentary video of the storm in the above link. A worthy 1/2 hour watch.

Science AND History. Learn it.
 

Clayster

Miki Dora status
Oct 26, 2005
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hal9000 said:
GromsDad said:
"The federal response to Maria faces obvious logistical challenges beyond those in Texas or Florida. Supplies must be delivered by air or sea, rather than with convoys of trucks.

FEMA said it had more than 700 staff on the ground in Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands. They were helping coordinate a federal response that now includes more than 10,000 federal personnel spread across the two Caribbean archipelagos.

In Puerto Rico, federal workers supplied diesel to fuel generators at hospitals and delivered desperately needed food and water to hard-hit communities across the island. Cargo flights are bringing in additional supplies, and barges loaded with more goods are starting to arrive in the island's ports.

San Juan's international airport handled nearly 100 arrivals and departures on Sunday, including military and relief operations, according to the Federal Aviation Administration. The Pentagon dispatched the Navy amphibious assault ship USS Kearsarge, which provided helicopters and Marines to help with the relief effort onshore."

It's too bad we don't have a Navy. Or helicopters.

700 people to help 3.5 million people. Yeah, sounds like a good ratio to me.

The second you guys have to start defending the response you've already lost the public relations battle.
It's too bad you don't know what is going on. The military is piling in there, marines, navy, national guard. Landing craft going ashore with Marines and gear. Do a little research.
 

Clayster

Miki Dora status
Oct 26, 2005
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sizzld1 said:
StuAzole said:
why do Texas and Florida get visits but PR not? Hmm.
Fvck visits. Why are Texas and Florida allowed to suspend shipping rules in order to allow fuel and water to come ashore and Puerto Rico isn't. Makes zero sense. But what else should we expect from Chump?
Trump is going to PR. All of you t!ts who whine about presidential visits to disaster areas ought to at least check into what is involved in one. Tons of disruptive security, for one thing. Presidential visits in the middle of a disaster like this one are unnecessary, and interfere with first responders, and relief efforts and probably shouldn't happen. But the media likes to play it up.

 

casa_mugrienta

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Apr 13, 2008
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Contrary to what rabid posters are claiming, the Jones Act was suspended but apparently it won;t make much of a difference.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/lifting-jones-act-wont-speed-relief-to-puerto-rico-logistics-experts-say-1506627157
 

Surfdog

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Apr 22, 2001
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They could get all the ships in the world there with supplies, but containers are sitting in the docks by the 100's if not 1000's already. Truck Drivers are not showing up for work, can't be contacted and many areas are still impassable, especially for large trucks. Of the over 3000 containers sitting in the docks, only 4% have been trucked out.

Even CNN is admitting the logistics problems here.....

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/27/us/puerto-rico-aid-problem/index.html

The only other option is air-drops of smaller crates of water and supplies. That's going to take a hell of a lot of helo's to handle 3.4 million people.
 

studog

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Jan 15, 2003
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Surfdog said:
They could get all the ships in the world there with supplies, but containers are sitting in the docks by the 100's if not 1000's already. Truck Drivers are not showing up for work, can't be contacted and many areas are still impassable, especially for large trucks.

Even CNN is admitting the logistics problems here.....

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/27/us/puerto-rico-aid-problem/index.html

The only other option is air-drops of smaller crates of water and supplies. That's going to take a hell of a lot of helo's to handle 3.4 million people.
I'm sure there are capable truck drivers in the military we can send in there.
 

Surfdog

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Apr 22, 2001
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stu dog said:
Surfdog said:
They could get all the ships in the world there with supplies, but containers are sitting in the docks by the 100's if not 1000's already. Truck Drivers are not showing up for work, can't be contacted and many areas are still impassable, especially for large trucks.

Even CNN is admitting the logistics problems here.....

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/27/us/puerto-rico-aid-problem/index.html

The only other option is air-drops of smaller crates of water and supplies. That's going to take a hell of a lot of helo's to handle 3.4 million people.
I'm sure there are capable truck drivers in the military we can send in there.
I'm sure there are, but only so many trucks available at the docks, and roads are not passable many areas yet. They need to ship more trucks to the docks first. If the containers could be shipped, I'm sure they would, whoever is available.

Airlifting is probably the best they can do now, quickly. But that's limited in scope unless you have 100+ of freight capable aircraft. I'm sure the military is doing everything they can with what the have there, and more coming every day.

But its never good enough, ever, right?