How much longer will we have domestic/custom board makers?

GWS

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I’m really beginning to get skeptical about where this thing is going. Sure, there will always be some guys with day jobs that will make boards, but how much longer will guys be able to make a living doing it in the U.S.A.?

I heard a rumor yesterday that a principal for one of the “Big 3” is in China right now making arraignments to have the bulk of their line produced there. Not spin offs, or a different logo, but their core line of boards. (Something that they swore they’d never do) They’ll, of course, continue to do R&D on the West Coast, but as soon as they decide to make it into a model, they’ll send it off to China for reproduction.

Meanwhile, many of the smaller guys that, in the past, have sold boards out of various shops, seem to be selling fewer and fewer boards. They question the shop owners, and more often than not, the shop owners suggest to them that if they want more rack space, they need to make their boards offshore. On the imports the shops can make a 100% markup, something that they can’t even begin to approach with domestic boards. So what do they push? Of course they push the stuff with the highest markup. The only way they will try and move a guy into a domestic board is if they feel they are going to lose the sale unless they do.

And the kids coming up, by and large, they don’t care. Surfboards ARE just like toasters for them. Most of them have never owned a board that wasn’t some kind of an off-the-rack model. They want to walk in, say, ‘Sick dude! That’s what Taj rides!’ throw down mommy’s credit card and walk out with it. They won't even notice the fact that eveyrthing is a Chinese popout.

So how does this thing progress… I don’t know if “progress” is the right word… how does this thing degenerate from here? The domestic board makers relying on shops for the bulk of their sales will sell less and less (for the above stated reasons). Less rack space, fewer boards in the water, fewer dollars for advertisement, fewer dollars for team boards. They’re going to be like lobsters going into a pot of comfy cold water with the heat set on low. It will be slow, but before they know it, it will be over. Their logo/label will be dead. Ignored. The old guys will peel off and quit surfing or get hurt or die, the kids will buy their popouts. And a lot of domestic builders won’t go direct to the surfer (bypassing the shops) because the shops threaten them if they do that. And they still think maybe the shop sales will turn around, so they hang back. And wait for the turnaround that will never come

Doing nothing, doing the same thing you always did, is as good as helping it happen. The path is set. The “impossible dream” would be for domestic surfboard manufactures to unionize. If ALL of them refused to sell surfboards to shops that push popouts, they might have some power. Pool resources and open shops that actively market the fact that all the boards inside are made in the USA, and you might have something. The sad thing is I think that’s an impossible scenario. Some shop owner would dangle a few hundred bucks in front of a desperate shaper and bingo, he’d buckle.

And the little guys going to China (by little guys, I mean non Big Three affiliated people) how much money are you making? Are you going to be able to make enough in the next couple of years to coast for the rest of your life? I hope so. Because by the time you are done, there won’t be anything left here. You didn’t think the Chinese were going to continue to pay you, did you? If so, you better wake up and smell the coffee. The Chinese have a LONG history of getting what they need out of the round-eye, the knowledge, know how and equipment, and then kicking the round eye to the curb. Over and over again. You guys will be no different. So, I hope you’re at least making enough to retire on. Because by the time they are done with you, the domestic industry will be in a shambles, so you won’t be making money over here. You’ll be a 40 to 50 year old something, broke ex-surfboard maker with no place to go. Not a pretty picture.

Although, you could always sell cars. Or maybe do phone sales. Maybe even phone sex. I mean, since you whored yourself out to the Chinese, you should be getting good at it.

Yeah. That’s the ticket.
 
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000

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u can also go online and design your own board on the kkl machine and have em cut it for like $30

u dont have to b a great shaper to finish it off and take it to a glasser
 

GWS

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u can also go online and design your own board on the kkl machine and have em cut it for like $30

u dont have to b a great shaper to finish it off and take it to a glasser
You got a link for that?
 

JJR

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How'd you get ahold of Blakestahs wish list? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/unuts.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bricks.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/toilet.gif" alt="" />
 

GWS

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Here’s a question for all those guys that have to have an XYZ model because, ‘Joe SurfStar rides one, and he rips!’

Do you really believe Joe SurfStar rides the same XYZ model you can buy? Or in some cases, does he ride it AT ALL?

He’s on customs. Maybe they were customs that came off the machine as an XYZ model, but by the time they were done tweaking it by hand, a LOT of changes have been made.

For that matter, I know of one model that is actively being pimped with a big name surfer’s name, that he freaking HATES. Says he’s never even ridden the board for anything but photo shoots, and afterwards, he can’t get off of it fast enough.

But the groupies lap it up, off the rack, because they think its what he rides.

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/unuts.gif" alt="" />
 

Basswave

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I honestly feel that there will always be a contingent of folks that will make a living being a shaper here in the states and select other locations as well.

I just had this conversation the other day with someone and believe that if there is a certain higher quality level offered of a finish product that some consumers will buy it even if its a little more and that will never change.

I actually think aspects like the design forum will help keep more of the boutique shapers alive.

Now without naming labels/shapers I think the ones that will get hurt the most to the point of not doing it for a absolute living with be your "mid-priced boards".

For example not your CI board but your domestic shaper/label that has a board is less expensive then the CI but is more expensive than the Asian popout.
<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/foreheadslap.gif" alt="" />

I think you will see a less of that in the future.
 

Tron

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Here’s a question for all those guys that have to have an XYZ model because, ‘Joe SurfStar rides one, and he rips!’

Do you really believe Joe SurfStar rides the same XYZ model you can buy? Or in some cases, does he ride it AT ALL?

He’s on customs. Maybe they were customs that came off the machine as an XYZ model, but by the time they were done tweaking it by hand, a LOT of changes have been made.

For that matter, I know of one model that is actively being pimped with a big name surfer’s name, that he freaking HATES. Says he’s never even ridden the board for anything but photo shoots, and afterwards, he can’t get off of it fast enough.

But the groupies lap it up, off the rack, because they think its what he rides.

Quit being so vague, and call people out.
Is it Taj and the crapwire?
 

GWS

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So, if somebody tells you something in confidence and asks you to not use their name because of business complications it will cause them, you should turn around, break your word, and out them?

I was raised better than that.

It was NOT Taj.
 

rspowers

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I have 2 boards, they are both customs from local guys, not the big names. I had to wait 3-4 months to get both boards because they were so busy. At this point, they have a lot of business. I agree that this may not be the case in 5-10 years though.

The pros really need to step it up and speak out. Stop using popouts and get some pride. I would rather see a local joe in the surf magazines anyway. I hate seeing pro surfers at spots that not many people surf, in giant waves that not many people surf. I would rather learn about the local guy who rips in chest high surf and doesnt surf contests....maybe i am just rambling....but professional surfing is such a small part of our sport but yet its glorified 99% of the time in the magazine and videos.
 

blakestah

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Sep 10, 2002
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How'd you get ahold of Blakestahs wish list? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/unuts.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bricks.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/toilet.gif" alt="" />
NOT my wish list. Don't confuse an attempt to predict the changes in the industry with my personal wishes.

I do not see responsible custom board makers going away though. They will charge a reasonable price for their work, which will end up being substantially more than the on-the-rack products in the surf shops. They will increasingly work directly as small retailers (ie: directly with customers) to minimize the price difference - many already do. And the domestic shapers occupying more "niche" markets will be affected later and less.

And the fraction of the market made in the USA will continue to decrease. The real steamroller this year was the GSI boards made at the COBRA factory. Reasonably high quality boards, from some top brands in shaping, retailing for $450 and providing a much better profit margin for the shop than the domestic boards. And they can easily sell lower.

I watched all the same stuff go down while bike racing in the 1980s and 1990s. In the 1980s all bikes were made in the USA and custom's were not uncommon. By the mid 1990s virtually every bike frame was cut and welded overseas. However, especially at the top levels of the sport, everyone knew where to go to get a good custom frame made by a domestic craftsman for a fair price (fair to the craftsman).

To the consumer there is a bright side, too. Good low end racing bicycles were $1000 in 1990. They were $1000 last year too, and the bikes sold last year are DRAMATICALLY better than the ones sold for the same price 17 years ago. And the guys building custom frames are experiencing increased business too. It is just that the fraction of the market made in the USA is miniscule, and only relevant at the higher levels of the sport.
 

BrownFish

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And the kids coming up, by and large, they don’t care. Surfboards ARE just like toasters for them. Most of them have never owned a board that wasn’t some kind of an off-the-rack model. They want to walk in, say, ‘Sick dude! That’s what Taj rides!’ throw down mommy’s credit card and walk out with it. They won't even notice the fact that eveyrthing is a Chinese popout.
I think it's much worse than that. The old guys have been doing it with longboards for quite some time now. They don't want to buy boards every 6 months so they buy a surftech. Many of them surf pretty well, but they are just over it. They want a product that lasts a little longer.

Look at the whole Longboard Surfing Coalition. Swami's surf club is having thier annual contest this year at Cardiff and is sponsored by Global Surf industries. There are alot of hardcore good surfers that belong to Swamis that have strong ties with local shapers. Why is Global sponsoring it? Cause it's the only way it will happen. They are willing to throw up the money it takes for the permit at a State Beach. Swamis used to get the permit for pretty cheap, but that ended and now the cost is through the roof. No domestic producer will step up, so it's either Global, or have it at D-street like last year. Hmmm, D-street or Cardiff (and sell thier souls like the shop owners), they went for the sell-out. You can't really blame em in a way. They want to have a successful event, and D-street was a flop. I personally will be boycotting the contest for the first time in 10 years and taking the family to the mountains to camp.
 

rrhyne

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Here’s a question for all those guys that have to have an XYZ model because, ‘Joe SurfStar rides one, and he rips!’

Do you really believe Joe SurfStar rides the same XYZ model you can buy? Or in some cases, does he ride it AT ALL?

He’s on customs. Maybe they were customs that came off the machine as an XYZ model, but by the time they were done tweaking it by hand, a LOT of changes have been made.

For that matter, I know of one model that is actively being pimped with a big name surfer’s name, that he freaking HATES. Says he’s never even ridden the board for anything but photo shoots, and afterwards, he can’t get off of it fast enough.

But the groupies lap it up, off the rack, because they think its what he rides.

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/unuts.gif" alt="" />


You should post this over in the regular forum. Do a poll. See how many people out themselves as souless sheep.
 

GWS

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I just got out of the water. One of the local guys was bitching to me about how much he paid for his custom EPS board.

"How much?" I asked him.

With a long face, "500 bucks."

So, I explained to him that it was 70 for the blank, 29 for the machine shape, 265 for the glass job on a quad, plus he got an extra set of fins for another 30 bucks. So that's what, 394 in costs? Plus he paid 500, tax included. So the shaper makes less than a 100 bucks on a custom, and the guy is pissed.

Surfers are idiots.
 

tom@daumtooling

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GWS, I just don't see it the same as you. Of the "Big 3" Rusty and Al have been around for almost 30 years. Lost came on line about 12 years ago. That's fairly recent. I'm seeing guys like Cole and Strech selling more boards this year than ever before. Yeah, the marketing machine can keep the new customers focused on the big three. But, competition is the mother of invention. That's why people make better products. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Oh by the way I had another blast morning on my Fire Fly even with the South wind bump. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wave2.gif" alt="" />
 
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Where I live anyone who can surf rides a custom. The custom shapers are busy, busy, busy.

Time to get a custom is 10x longer than it was 10-15 years ago.

There are way more surfers in the water now.

It is mostly the beginners that buy the Chinese boards.
 
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GWS

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I hope you're right Tom. I was feeling pretty black about this last night and this AM for a few reasons. I've been sick as well. But, I went out this AM after I wrote that.

No bump on it up here. Cleanest waves I've seen in some time.

I feel better now. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
 

studog

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I just got out of the water. One of the local guys was bitching to me about how much he paid for his custom EPS board.

"How much?" I asked him.

With a long face, "500 bucks."

So, I explained to him that it was 70 for the blank, 29 for the machine shape, 265 for the glass job on a quad, plus he got an extra set of fins for another 30 bucks. So that's what, 394 in costs? Plus he paid 500, tax included. So the shaper makes less than a 100 bucks on a custom, and the guy is pissed.

Surfers are idiots.
agreed. everyone needs to come to relization that custom shapes will cost more. just the price of resin only is increasing (oil based product <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) so that needs to be passed onto the consumer. don’t like paying the extra cost? then buy something from overseas. just remember, you get what you pay for <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> so STFU when the board breaks easily, gets a lot of dents, or the fin plugs blow out. maybe that's fine for "model" boards <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" /> my 1/2 of $.02, the custom shape business will decrease but not die. maybe it will be more geared to service the "boutique" or older guy demographic rather than kids. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" /> there will always be a spot for those types of boards in racks cause of one simply thing: customers will buy shinny objects <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/drowning.gif" alt="" />
 

LASToftheMOHICAN

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Mar 8, 2007
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what i am about to type is the truth.
i know alot maore about china than anyone else.
i hold knowledge of what happinging over there and how the operation works. i know exacting who is over there and what they are in charge of. i have seen pictures and video of the work that is being made over there and have talked a few people that have gone over there.
i know the truth about it and if you guys agree to not take it out on me id be glad to clue you alll in on the truth of the matter.
il start by saying if you had some one that built boards for forty years or a fin foiler who would you listen to?
 

dk

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I agree with most said on this thread so far. Besides the statement blakstah made about the GSI boards being high quality. Pretty much every name I have heard that is doing their boards overseas has been ruined, Weber, JS, any other GSI crap all blatantly look like crap to me.

I saw the asshole at the tradeshow pumping the old canyon label with full tint CI fish ripoffs going for $250. A board with a once legit label, being made overseas and about $500 less than what the American made board would sell for. That Hurts more than anything.

As for shapers boycotting shops, It'll sadly never happen. To much greed, to many sketchy shaper types trying to undercut the next guy and make a couple more dollars as he turns his name to mud.

The biggest problem is the magazine. It's all about what the magazine says. AND THEY DEFINATELY ARE NOT SUPPORTING THE DOMESTIC SURFBOARD. The Magazines are the true whores, letting companies like surftech sponsor something called "the shapers tree". For letting anybody with deep pockets claim anything about their popouts, and not only that the magazine will pimp them! Do fake articles on new technologies of today. Accidentily completely leave out poly boards. Pump surftech and board works. Oh your a soul guy? buy a rusty eps or 2.

I think it has a little to do with not biting the hand that gives them their beach houses, but probably even more to do with having uneducated ex pro surfers as the writers.

Its a scary time when the #1 domestic surfboard builder sells his company for 20 million and are now on the fast track to kookdom. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/socrazy.gif" alt="" /> If AL merick who is portrayed as the christian good guy of the industry is going to sell out for 20 mill and have people from the golf industry running his company, who can you count on?

The only one out of the big 3 I see actually improving their products and staying on track while trying new materials and such is ..lost.

When's the last time you saw a poly Rusty? Do you actually consider CI's new heat sensitive technology something meaningful? The thought used to be.. "Great! Al will stay out of the buisness stuff and now be able to focus on shaping." And the new models we have seen are??? the biscuit? no thanks.


I don't think the custom surfboard is going to go away. I do think the big buisness' are going to get bigger, and the little guys are going to be fewer. But that probably wouldve happened anyways as I can only think of about 8 guys under 30 that want anything to do with shaping
 

fonker

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Apr 18, 2006
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I have 2 boards, they are both customs from local guys, not the big names. I had to wait 3-4 months to get both boards because they were so busy. At this point, they have a lot of business. I agree that this may not be the case in 5-10 years though.

The pros really need to step it up and speak out. Stop using popouts and get some pride. I would rather see a local joe in the surf magazines anyway. I hate seeing pro surfers at spots that not many people surf, in giant waves that not many people surf. I would rather learn about the local guy who rips in chest high surf and doesnt surf contests....maybe i am just rambling....but professional surfing is such a small part of our sport but yet its glorified 99% of the time in the magazine and videos.
The 'pros" don't care. They will ride what "wins" in contests and what "pays" in Mag. shoots and endorsement deals. It's all about the mighty $. Pancho is not going to dump Surftech out of principles the same way that Tiger is not going to dump Nike. Endorsements = paychecks. There are only so many Tom Curren's in this world...