How’s the stock market?

PeterDj

Legend (inyourownmind)
Jul 11, 2018
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You could simply sell your positions and maintain that money in cash for now.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing so. It will be up to you when to jump back in.

We’re not even close to the bottom - we are yet to feel the effect of the bad economic indicators, recession has not yet been factored into pricing. Bubble pricing still in efffect and panic hasn’t yet set in.
I think this is what a lot of funds are doing now. 30% trailing stop loss is pretty standard. It's a snowball effect. The algorithms are kicking in to prevent further losses. A friend of mine was complaining he has 70% loss, I'm like dude you are retarded, this is why every broker has trade armor like features. The question is when to rebuy back in. It's too hard to time the bottom when to buy back in. Just watch SPY to see the tide swing, and compare with anything that has ARK in the name for the lulls and set waves. ARK is about as dreamy space cadet shoot for the moon etf as it can get and is totally getting raped now, so when it starts to go back up, then it might be safe to rebuy back in.
 

R3W

Phil Edwards status
Feb 19, 2002
6,864
32
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no, more like 70.
Required Minimum Distributions start at 72, probably moving to 75 before long. 59 1/2 is when you can start taking 401k/IRA distributions without penalty. Roth IRAs don’t have RMDs.

I‘ll be 2 years retired in June. My retirement wasn’t Covid related but I used it to my advantage. So in the 20 years leading up to it (and not even counting 1987), I saw my 401k cut in half twice. But you just keep plowing money into it because you’re buying tons of shares on the cheap and reinvesting dividends. Then when the bull starts going, you’re ready. When the 2009 bull started running, I started wishing for drops.

Your biggest worries for retirement shouldn’t be the market (assuming you have a financial plan), it should be taxes (withdrawal strategy) health care and when to take Social Security. Do it wrong and you can really fook yourself. hint - convert to Roths if you can

By the way, I worked at Schwab for 23 years and built the Research area of Schwab.com. Hit me up if need any clues how to use it. But send your complaints to the new guy.
 

Subway

Administrator
Staff member
Dec 31, 2008
13,282
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Haha, I always blame the new guy when I can

also, I think I make too much for roths, but I guess you mean when I’m either retired or at least moved on to a mellower less expensive lifestyle and hence lower income, THEN I should convert to ROTH? Fwiw I max my wifes Roth for her every year, so even that modest account took full advantage of the last decades bull run. She was whining about “only“ having x amount saved, and while yeah, it ain’t even quite 6 figures, I pointed out that the average American has barely any savings and next to no emergency fund etc. and with another 20 years compounding, even she will have a little nest egg to put with the rest of it.
 
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R3W

Phil Edwards status
Feb 19, 2002
6,864
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Haha, I always blame the new guy when I can

also, I think I make too much for roths, but I guess you mean when I’m either retired or at least moved on to a mellower less expensive lifestyle and hence lower income, THEN I should convert to ROTH? Fwiw I max my wifes Roth for her every year, so even that modest account took full advantage of the last decades bull run. She was whining about “only“ having x amount saved, and while yeah, it ain’t even quite 6 figures, I pointed out that the average American has barely any savings and next to no emergency fund etc. and with another 20 years compounding, even she will have a little nest egg to put with the rest of it.
Although your salary limits you from contributing to a Roth, you can convert any amount from an IRA to a Roth IRA. Kind of a loophole. So even if you make too much, you can call your broker and have them move your money from an IRA to Roth. It’s taxed as ordinary income so it‘ll probably bump up your bracket. Thing is, the low tax rates we have now are due to revert back to the higher rates in either 2025 or 26. So 22% goes to 25% and 24% goes to 28%. Ok, here’s another cool thing - you can move shares from an IRA to a Roth without liquidating them. So if you have any beaten down stocks that you want hang onto, you can move them at the lower basis. Then when they bounce back, the gains will be tax free.

Also - invest in a Health Savings Account if you can.

This sh!t’s hard man. Nobody told me I’d have to learn so much about f’ing taxes.
 

grapedrink

Duke status
May 21, 2011
24,797
13,640
113
A Beach
might be some good times ahead to accumulate rental properties…is that predatory? Feels vaguely exploitative
Not at all. You can always be a better and more fair landlord than some slum lord shilling for black rock. The more regular folks who own properties the better.

I picked one up a few months back in a booming SE city that is full of your bagel eating ilk retiring there :beer:
 
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PRCD

Tom Curren status
Feb 25, 2020
11,697
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Not at all. You can always be a better and more fair landlord than some slum lord shilling for black rock.
Speaking of Black Rock I know a much easier way to acquire property. It will require a trip down town. We will rock, paper, scissors over who will wear the martyrdom vest.
 
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PeterDj

Legend (inyourownmind)
Jul 11, 2018
467
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Although your salary limits you from contributing to a Roth, you can convert any amount from an IRA to a Roth IRA. Kind of a loophole. So even if you make too much, you can call your broker and have them move your money from an IRA to Roth. It’s taxed as ordinary income so it‘ll probably bump up your bracket. Thing is, the low tax rates we have now are due to revert back to the higher rates in either 2025 or 26. So 22% goes to 25% and 24% goes to 28%. Ok, here’s another cool thing - you can move shares from an IRA to a Roth without liquidating them. So if you have any beaten down stocks that you want hang onto, you can move them at the lower basis. Then when they bounce back, the gains will be tax free.

Also - invest in a Health Savings Account if you can.

This sh!t’s hard man. Nobody told me I’d have to learn so much about f’ing taxes.
Are you sure about gains being tax free after moving to a Roth? I think if you move to a roth that would be a taxable event since you haven't paid taxes yet on the money you put in the IRA, but roth you must pay income taxes at purchase. That's basically the difference with roth you pay your taxes up front, but with ira you pay after retirement expecting your income will be lower so your tax bracket is lower. The benefit with roth is you don't pay taxes on the withdrawals after retirement since they are paid already. Seems like a massive loop hole to move from IRA to Roth tax free. I mean why would anyone buy into a roth before retirement if that was true?
 

VonMeister

Duke status
Apr 26, 2013
20,251
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JOE BIDENS RAPE FINGER
I've been buying a few shares of this and that with my cash in account over the past couple of weeks as things take a dump. Not going big on anything but yeah, these things will recover.
If you look at the Model 3/Y competitors, they are all more expensive, less range and for the manufacturer...less margin. This is the meat and potatoes and Tesla is so far ahead it's silly.

Model S is a bit different.. The Mercedes EQ, Porsche Taycan, and my favorite..the Audi RS Etron GT are all really good cars...but whats the market for cars north of 150K...or 200K for the top of the line Taycan? There's not margins up here.

Teslas giga factory is going to be the most technology advanced manufacturing plant in the world capable of churning our cars faster than has ever happened before. They can crush the competition here..although I don't think that's a Tesla goal. I think they are going to be the US largest auto manufacturer in a fairly short time.

I did get to borrow a Lucid for a couple days in Houston last week. It is by far the nicest EV made to date..just an amazingly pleasant car to drive.. but I'm not sure how many EV companies can survive and at the Lucid price point it's going to be tough for them.

I've got a decent sized investment in Fisker. I think they are the right car at the right time. If only they would start selling them.
 

parkiteric

Nep status
Jul 3, 2010
752
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I've been buying a few shares of this and that with my cash in account over the past couple of weeks as things take a dump. Not going big on anything but yeah, these things will recover.
it will probably decrease more. Watch for more FOMC meetings. Eyes peeled on the big boys.
 
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R3W

Phil Edwards status
Feb 19, 2002
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Are you sure about gains being tax free after moving to a Roth? I think if you move to a roth that would be a taxable event since you haven't paid taxes yet on the money you put in the IRA, but roth you must pay income taxes at purchase. That's basically the difference with roth you pay your taxes up front, but with ira you pay after retirement expecting your income will be lower so your tax bracket is lower. The benefit with roth is you don't pay taxes on the withdrawals after retirement since they are paid already. Seems like a massive loop hole to move from IRA to Roth tax free. I mean why would anyone buy into a roth before retirement if that was true?
You’re right. I think I said that but wasn’t clear. When you do the conversion, the amount you move from the IRA is taxed as ordinary income in the year you move it.. But once it’s in the Roth, everything that comes out is tax free, including the gains. When you do the conversion there‘s a 5 year holding period but that only impacts people over 59 1/2.

At this point, I’m ready to rip the band-aid and pay higher one-time tax now rather than death by 1000 cuts when I’m 72 and have to take start taking RMDs. RMDs can force you into a higher tax bracket, impact taxes on Social Security and increase Medicare payments.
 

grapedrink

Duke status
May 21, 2011
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You’re right. I think I said that but wasn’t clear. When you do the conversion, the amount you move from the IRA is taxed as ordinary income in the year you move it.. But once it’s in the Roth, everything that comes out is tax free, including the gains. When you do the conversion there‘s a 5 year holding period but that only impacts people over 59 1/2.

At this point, I’m ready to rip the band-aid and pay higher one-time tax now rather than death by 1000 cuts when I’m 72 and have to take start taking RMDs. RMDs can force you into a higher tax bracket, impact taxes on Social Security and increase Medicare payments.
You still have to pay state taxes on ROTH disbursements, correct? :unsure: That's what the agent at Schwab told me.
 

2surf

Duke status
Apr 12, 2004
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Correct, and they are not immune to price inflation - and most favorites like VTV and VIG are still in bubble pricing.

Discount pricing is a long way off - stocks aren't even factoring in recession yet.

But if you want to keep pouring money down the drain that's your choice.
I lost a lot of money in the stock market when the dot-com bubble burst in 1999. I was over leveraged then crushed on the margin call. Then, It was all day trading on line with dial up internet. I have wisely stayed out of the market since then.
 

R3W

Phil Edwards status
Feb 19, 2002
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You still have to pay state taxes on ROTH disbursements, correct? :unsure: That's what the agent at Schwab told me.
Roth distributions aren’t taxed by the state (at least CA) assuming you‘re at least 59 1/2 and you‘ve had the Roth for 5 years.

The money going into your Roth is taxed by both Feds and State. That includes doing the Roth conversion I mentioned earlier.
 
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Jul 25, 2020
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Also - invest in a Health Savings Account if you can.
This!

If your employer offers a high deductable health care plan (HSA) definitely enroll and contribute additional funds up to the limit. Your contributions will defer this years taxes and any future growth and withdrawal for medical purposes will be tax free. This is an awesome deal!
 
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