Houston stampede

sussle

Miki Dora status
Oct 11, 2009
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I remember this sensation, briefly, from a couple of stadium shows, many years ago. I recall it like getting caught in big gnarly shorebreak, where you can't quite get to your feet :drowning:
John Fruin, a retired research engineer, wrote in a paper titled "The Causes and Prevention of Crowd Disasters," that individual control is lost in a crush and "one becomes an involuntary part of the mass."
"At occupancies of about 7 persons per square meter the crowd becomes almost a fluid mass. Shock waves can be propagated through the mass sufficient to lift people off of their feet and propel them distances of 3 m (10 ft) or more. People may be literally lifted out of their shoes, and have clothing torn off," Fruin wrote in the paper originally presented in 1993 and revised in 2002.
"Intense crowd pressures, exacerbated by anxiety, make it difficult to breathe. The heat and thermal insulation of surrounding bodies cause some to be weakened and faint. Access to those who fall is impossible. Removal of those in distress can only be accomplished by lifting them up and passing them overhead to the exterior of the crowd."
Fruin wrote that most crowd deaths result from "compressive asphyxia" rather than trampling. He described steel guardrails capable of withstanding a thousand pounds of pressure bent by the "domino effect" of the crowd force.
 
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racer1

Tom Curren status
Apr 16, 2014
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Honolulu, Hawaii
I was up front during lollapalooza in Fairfax in 1991. There was a mad push to get closer to the stage when Jane's Addiction opened and people were getting hurt. I was one of them. It was one of the most terrifying things of my life. This guy saw me getting stepped on and face down in the muddy mosh pit and he scooped me up and saved me.
Saw Jane's Addiction on Coachella 2001 and similar thing. We were up near the front and I felt things getting tight and starting getting claustrophobic. I also had to pee super bad so we bailed, but people ended up getting hurt. Such a creepy feeling when the sound guys cleared the stage and you could feel every one around you squeezing in.
 
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PJ

Nep status
Jan 27, 2002
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Shrub Oak,N.Y.,USA
The horses in the video - for regular crowds horses are very good for crowd control - most people won't try to fight a horse so its sort of a good non-confrontational method. NY City Police have lots of them. One of the coolest things I ever saw - it was in 2000 at Yankee Stadium - the Yankees won the game which sent them into the World Series with the Mets. To us New Yorkers this meant a return to the days of yore, like the legendary Dodgers/Yankees Subway series. When the game ended the crowd was so happy and united as one - nobody left their seats as they played Frank Sinatra singing New York, New York and about 50 cops on horses came out onto the field and formed a ring around the field. My son who was only 6 was with me - a great moment for both of us.

But the horses - I realize now that they were really there to defend the field but unlike men on foot, with horses my brain just said "Oh look - that's cool - look at all the horses!" The deflectionary magic of horses!
 
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Subway

Kelly Slater status
Dec 31, 2008
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LBNY
back in the middle ages, a well trained warhorse with an equally well trained and well-armoured knight astride it, was considered the most advanced weapon of the entire middle ages, until the arrival of gunpowder (or maybe the famed English and Welsh Archers and their bodkin arrows in the 1300's) But yeah, even a well trained and battle hardened foot soldier is going to have a hard time standing up to 1000 pounds of horse flesh bearing down on him at 30 MPH
 
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Waterlogged05

Michael Peterson status
May 14, 2005
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Houston local here, this was pretty much a combination of everything that can go wrong.

Usually at large shows you need 2 main stages, everyone was funneled into one area without a good way to escape.
Combine that with them selling 100k tickets, compared to the previous years 75k and the amount of kooks who stormed the gates. I've been to ACL with way more people plenty of times but there was always enough room for the crowd to disperse if need be along with multiple entrances/exits. They usually had two headlining shows as well.

Understaffed security, and when people went down, he paused the show but briefly with music still going.
If you need to stop the show for safety you need to stop the music and let everyone know exactly what's going on.

Read accounts that the EMS was understaffed, poorly trained etc.

Then mix in a crowd of people who are extra aggro after this past 2 years...
Then combine that with Travis himself who is known to promote a wild crowd
He was arrested in 2016 for telling college kids to storm the stage in Arkansas
at another show He told the crowd to beat up some goober who stole his sneakers when he was crowd surfing
Also at another show told some kid to jump from the balcony who is now paralyzed.

So it was a perfect storm.
There was a show in Europe a few years ago that had the same result and it ended with new regulations for shows over a certain size. Pressure plates on the barriers, and better communication between staff, organizers, local pd.
 

BigUps

Michael Peterson status
Mar 18, 2011
3,137
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Hotel Coral Essex
back in the middle ages, a well trained warhorse with an equally well trained and well-armoured knight astride it, was considered the most advanced weapon of the entire middle ages, until the arrival of gunpowder (or maybe the famed English and Welsh Archers and their bodkin arrows in the 1300's) But yeah, even a well trained and battle hardened foot soldier is going to have a hard time standing up to 1000 pounds of horse flesh bearing down on him at 30 MPH
Wonder if they could move to a sick beat back then.

 

potato-nator

Phil Edwards status
Nov 10, 2015
5,786
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those who said so were right that it should not have happened. LIVE NATION is
involved and LIVE NATION absolutey knows about this kinda stuff...which to me means culpability...i hope THEY get trampled in court.

:cursing:
 

potato-nator

Phil Edwards status
Nov 10, 2015
5,786
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the star attraction had multiple convictions for inciting riots.
something LIVE NATION had to be aware of...
 

Waterlogged05

Michael Peterson status
May 14, 2005
1,769
1,554
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allegedly hpd had already warned travis before the show that the crowd was already getting dangerous

everyone passing the buck now.
 

Waterlogged05

Michael Peterson status
May 14, 2005
1,769
1,554
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Tom minds of twitter and facebook are saying its a satanic conspiracy
Satanic Panic all over again sigh
 

enframed

Kelly Slater status
Apr 11, 2006
9,682
4,674
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Del Boca Vista, Phase III
Houston local here, this was pretty much a combination of everything that can go wrong.

Usually at large shows you need 2 main stages, everyone was funneled into one area without a good way to escape.
Combine that with them selling 100k tickets, compared to the previous years 75k and the amount of kooks who stormed the gates. I've been to ACL with way more people plenty of times but there was always enough room for the crowd to disperse if need be along with multiple entrances/exits. They usually had two headlining shows as well.

Understaffed security, and when people went down, he paused the show but briefly with music still going.
If you need to stop the show for safety you need to stop the music and let everyone know exactly what's going on.

Read accounts that the EMS was understaffed, poorly trained etc.

Then mix in a crowd of people who are extra aggro after this past 2 years...
Then combine that with Travis himself who is known to promote a wild crowd
He was arrested in 2016 for telling college kids to storm the stage in Arkansas
at another show He told the crowd to beat up some goober who stole his sneakers when he was crowd surfing
Also at another show told some kid to jump from the balcony who is now paralyzed.

So it was a perfect storm.
There was a show in Europe a few years ago that had the same result and it ended with new regulations for shows over a certain size. Pressure plates on the barriers, and better communication between staff, organizers, local pd.
Straight Up!
 

WindowLicker

Nep status
Aug 4, 2021
654
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The 9 year old that is in critical care in the hospital...

how did the parents think that a Travis Scott rap concert would be a good idea?

rap=violence