I dont know about those other medecines,. but aspirin lowers blood pressure. I can't take it. I get the same symptoms you had.
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Heart Health
- Thread starter One-Off
- Start date
I dont know about those other medecines,. but aspirin lowers blood pressure. I can't take it. I get the same symptoms you had.
"Mainstream Media"???? . Are these mainstream media?
What’s So Bad About LDL?
Learn what this “bad” type of cholesterol does in your body and what you can do about it.
Cholesterol: 5 Truths to Know
How much of what you hear about cholesterol is true? Check out these cholesterol facts that might surprise you.
Can we reduce vascular plaque buildup? - Harvard Health
When plaque builds up in arteries, you are at risk for serious health issues. Discover the cause of this issue and three lifestyle changes you can make today....
www.health.harvard.edu
Perusing the literature I came across this. VM and the deadlift guys will feel confirmed-
" ...the apparent adverse effects associated with low cholesterol levels are secondary to comorbidity and frailty. " Weaklings beware!
Clarifying the direct relation between total cholesterol levels and death from coronary heart disease in older persons - PubMed
Elevated total cholesterol level is a risk factor for death from coronary heart disease in older adults, and the apparent adverse effects associated with low cholesterol levels are secondary to comorbidity and frailty. This suggests that excluding older persons from cholesterol screening is...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Your point may be related to this "controversial" study.
Study says there's no link between cholesterol and heart disease | Nursing Times
“Controversial report claims there’s no link between ‘bad cholesterol’ and heart disease,” the Daily Mail reports, while The Times states: “Bad
www.nursingtimes.net
Flawed cholesterol study makes headlines
A controversial study has argued that if you have a high LDL (bad) cholesterol level when you are aged over 60 you will live longer. Can we trust these bold claims?
I also read that, as VM said above, dietary cholesterol is responsible for only 10% of blood cholesterol. However, I also read that foods high in cholesterol are almost always concurrently high in saturated fats. I would be cautious about ignoring the LDL level. Fat kills.
I'm lucky that, because of genetics and my love of surfing, I do not have a "pear shaped body." Don Redondo way back in the day said, "Midriff bulges are a waterman's worst enemy."-
What is Metabolic Syndrome?
Metabolic syndrome is a serious health condition that occurs when a person has three or more of the following measurements.
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All of the fat-intake studies you can point to purposefully study the effects of high-fat high-carb diets against low-fat high-carb diets. And the results are predictable. The low-fat high-carb diets always win ....slightly .....in the short term.
I chalenge you to show me a study which tests the lifespan effects of high-fat low-fructose diets against high-fructose low-fat diets. You can't, because the medical establishment has too much profit at stake. Curing people is not a profit center. Treating people is a lucrative profit center.
Read my post. When the original definitive study was run medical science knew very little about choloesterol. The "shriveled" cholesterol found in heart disease cadavers was therefore deemed to be LDL. Since those findings there has been absolutely nothing linking these "cLDL" particles with any other classification of cholesterol. Regardless, when they get counted they get couinted as LDL cholesterol. They are not. They are the lipoprotein remnants which a glycated liver could not make into real cholesterol.
The LDL reading from a cholesterol panel becomes useless under these criteria without breaking out and counting cLDL particvles.
Cholesterol is a lipoprotein balloon filled with acetone or a related hydrocarbon made from fat. If a liver is too gloycated by alcohol or fructose to refine fats into cholesterol then it leaves high "triglyceride" concentrations in the bloodstream. Triglycerides is the other signifigant cholesterol panel marker. Because of genetic APOE vartiations the other markers become meaningless.
The Fat Lie You've Been Told About What's Hurting Your Heart
Despite multiple studies showing that carbohydrates hurt your heart, and not saturated fats, misguided advisories and Big Pharma profiteering both persist.
thewire.in
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.....Ancel Benjamin Keys, a physiologist with a PhD from Cambridge University, stamped his ‘diet heart’ hypothesis into the consciousness of Paul Dudley White, a founder-member of the AHA.
.....
Keys was able to launch his ‘diet heart’ hypothesis because there was little science available in the 1950s that could explain the near-epidemic of heart attacks among middle-aged Americans. He presented his “seven countries study” displaying a clear association between eating greater amounts of saturated fats and deaths due to heart disease. The seven countries were the US, Japan, Yugoslavia, Netherlands, Italy, Greece and Finland. But as Teicholz has shown, the method behind the study was seriously flawed.
The biggest was that Keys had cherry-picked these countries because they supported his hypothesis. He left out 15 countries that did not reveal any association between saturated-fat consumption and heart mortality. He conveniently ignored Denmark, Sweden and Norway, each of which had relatively few deaths from heart attacks in spite of sporting diets with lots of saturated fats. And Chile, on the other hand, had a high cardiac mortality despite eating little saturated fats. An unbiased investigator would have realised these problems in Keys’ hypothesis – as they do now – but didn’t: they hadn’t been presented with the complete data.
Keys also checked food samples for fats in less than 4% of the 12,000 participants he studied, and when the food was studied it was checked for a single day among the American and for less than a week among the European participants. Keys had also been impressed by the large number of long-lived people on the Greek island of Crete. However, as Teicholz writes, he had tested them when they’d been fasting for more than a month during a religious festival. In this period, more than 60% of the population abstained from meat, butter and cheese. This led Keys to the wrong conclusion that a low-fat diet was the key to longevity.
The AHA was so impressed by the ‘diet heart’ hypothesis that it made an official policy of it, and voila! By 1977, more than 220 million Americans were being urged by the US government to adhere to a low-fat diet. The British, true to form, officially imposed the same diet guidelines by 1984 on their subjects.
Remarkably, the AHA ignored no fewer than six randomised studies – including almost 2,500 heart patients – that showed no difference in mortality between the intervention group (low saturated-fat diet) and the control group (which continued with its regular eating habits). Both the intervention and control cohorts had 370 deaths each. Moreover, no women were being studied, and in the absence of a single primary prevention trial, the AHA and the US government had formulated their advisories.
The food industry also got in on the action. Vegetable oils started being manufactured in the millions of tons. Leading them all was Procter and Gamble, which began to aggressively market cottonseed oil, according to Teicholz’s book, as well as make a sizeable donation to the AHA, an amount worth $17 million today. The corresponding “diet-food-health-industrial complex” has not looked back in the 60 years since.
The largest randomised trial assessing the effects of a low-fat diet on heart and cardiovascular diseases was the Women’s Health Initiative. It followed up 49,000 postmenopausal women who had been on a low-fat diet (alongside an increased intake of fruits, vegetables and grains) for eight years but had failed to lower their risks of death, heart attack, stroke or diabetes.
Two large reviews and meta-analyses (this and this) involving more than 600,000 participants have also failed to show any reduction in cardiovascular events, or death, by replacing saturated fats with vegetable oils. There was an increase in cardiovascular events due to trans-fats.....
The Minnesota, DIRECT, Framingham and PURE studies
In 1967-1973, doctors intervened in the diets of a group of people randomly picked from a cohort of 9,000 for the famous Minnesota Coronary Experiment. The intervened group had saturated fats replaced by a polyunsaturated vegetable oil. The control group continued with their regular American diet. These people were from enrolled from mental institutions and from homes for the elderly. More than 2,500 participants continued on their respective diets for at least a year, and autopsy reports were available for about 140 deaths. This trial’s results were never published until a group of investigators got its hands on all the raw data.
They were dumbstruck to learn that the autopsies revealed 42% of the people in the intervention group had suffered a heart attack against only 22% in the control group. Both groups had similar amounts of atherosclerosis in their coronary arteries.
The other major finding was that, in spite of a 13% reduction in blood cholesterol with a vegetable-oil diet, there was a paradoxical 30% higher mortality in people older than 65 years. To explain this, the investigators hypothesised that the lowered cholesterol had the denser LDL particles that are oxidised more easily and so invade the coronary faster. As it happened, the principal investigator of the Minnesota Coronary Experiment was none other than Ancel Keys.....
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.....pure unadulterated snake oil.
That's not a study. That's an article. In the article are links to studies (or re evaluations of studies) done in the 1960's.The Fat Lie You've Been Told About What's Hurting Your Heart
Despite multiple studies showing that carbohydrates hurt your heart, and not saturated fats, misguided advisories and Big Pharma profiteering both persist.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.....Ancel Benjamin Keys, a physiologist with a PhD from Cambridge University, stamped his ‘diet heart’ hypothesis into the consciousness of Paul Dudley White, a founder-member of the AHA.
.....
Keys was able to launch his ‘diet heart’ hypothesis because there was little science available in the 1950s that could explain the near-epidemic of heart attacks among middle-aged Americans. He presented his “seven countries study” displaying a clear association between eating greater amounts of saturated fats and deaths due to heart disease. The seven countries were the US, Japan, Yugoslavia, Netherlands, Italy, Greece and Finland. But as Teicholz has shown, the method behind the study was seriously flawed.
The biggest was that Keys had cherry-picked these countries because they supported his hypothesis. He left out 15 countries that did not reveal any association between saturated-fat consumption and heart mortality. He conveniently ignored Denmark, Sweden and Norway, each of which had relatively few deaths from heart attacks in spite of sporting diets with lots of saturated fats. And Chile, on the other hand, had a high cardiac mortality despite eating little saturated fats. An unbiased investigator would have realised these problems in Keys’ hypothesis – as they do now – but didn’t: they hadn’t been presented with the complete data.
Keys also checked food samples for fats in less than 4% of the 12,000 participants he studied, and when the food was studied it was checked for a single day among the American and for less than a week among the European participants. Keys had also been impressed by the large number of long-lived people on the Greek island of Crete. However, as Teicholz writes, he had tested them when they’d been fasting for more than a month during a religious festival. In this period, more than 60% of the population abstained from meat, butter and cheese. This led Keys to the wrong conclusion that a low-fat diet was the key to longevity.
The AHA was so impressed by the ‘diet heart’ hypothesis that it made an official policy of it, and voila! By 1977, more than 220 million Americans were being urged by the US government to adhere to a low-fat diet. The British, true to form, officially imposed the same diet guidelines by 1984 on their subjects.
Remarkably, the AHA ignored no fewer than six randomised studies – including almost 2,500 heart patients – that showed no difference in mortality between the intervention group (low saturated-fat diet) and the control group (which continued with its regular eating habits). Both the intervention and control cohorts had 370 deaths each. Moreover, no women were being studied, and in the absence of a single primary prevention trial, the AHA and the US government had formulated their advisories.
The food industry also got in on the action. Vegetable oils started being manufactured in the millions of tons. Leading them all was Procter and Gamble, which began to aggressively market cottonseed oil, according to Teicholz’s book, as well as make a sizeable donation to the AHA, an amount worth $17 million today. The corresponding “diet-food-health-industrial complex” has not looked back in the 60 years since.
The largest randomised trial assessing the effects of a low-fat diet on heart and cardiovascular diseases was the Women’s Health Initiative. It followed up 49,000 postmenopausal women who had been on a low-fat diet (alongside an increased intake of fruits, vegetables and grains) for eight years but had failed to lower their risks of death, heart attack, stroke or diabetes.
Two large reviews and meta-analyses (this and this) involving more than 600,000 participants have also failed to show any reduction in cardiovascular events, or death, by replacing saturated fats with vegetable oils. There was an increase in cardiovascular events due to trans-fats.....
The Minnesota, DIRECT, Framingham and PURE studies
In 1967-1973, doctors intervened in the diets of a group of people randomly picked from a cohort of 9,000 for the famous Minnesota Coronary Experiment. The intervened group had saturated fats replaced by a polyunsaturated vegetable oil. The control group continued with their regular American diet. These people were from enrolled from mental institutions and from homes for the elderly. More than 2,500 participants continued on their respective diets for at least a year, and autopsy reports were available for about 140 deaths. This trial’s results were never published until a group of investigators got its hands on all the raw data.
They were dumbstruck to learn that the autopsies revealed 42% of the people in the intervention group had suffered a heart attack against only 22% in the control group. Both groups had similar amounts of atherosclerosis in their coronary arteries.
The other major finding was that, in spite of a 13% reduction in blood cholesterol with a vegetable-oil diet, there was a paradoxical 30% higher mortality in people older than 65 years. To explain this, the investigators hypothesised that the lowered cholesterol had the denser LDL particles that are oxidised more easily and so invade the coronary faster. As it happened, the principal investigator of the Minnesota Coronary Experiment was none other than Ancel Keys.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.....pure unadulterated snake oil.
But go ahead and gorge on saturated fats if that's what makes you happy.
Westerners eat more in all categories now. A lot more. Seems like any studies on macros would have to control for BMI.
I'm not the guy who started a threrad on the surf doc forum trying to sell people on the idea that fat intake "kills". You are. Medical science thrives on markers. That's good. However, lots of original markers later get shown not to be accurate indicators of the target disease. High cholesterol is just such a marker. It only stays alive because of statin manufacturers and people like you.
Nobody has ever died of "high cholterol". You won't get me to take statins until something else kills me first.
Nobody has ever died of "high cholterol". You won't get me to take statins until something else kills me first.
I was never trying to sell anything to anyone, just reporting my experience and sharing something I read that relates to exercise.
I thank you for bringing the recent studies to my attention. I will admit I was not aware of them. I've spent a good part of the evening reading different studies (and, yes, articles). From what I've gathered, the fat question is nuanced and that you sort have to judge each food item individually based on a comprehensive analysis. There was a study that said saturated fat did not increase incidence of CHD, but that poyunsaturated fat had benefits. Another that cheese and yogurt were beneficial but red meat and butter increased the CHD risk.
5 Studies on Saturated Fat
For decades, saturated fat has been blamed for causing heart disease. This article explores the findings from 5 recent studies on this.
www.healthline.com
The bottom line from the above article-
"Other issues are much more worthy of your attention, such as limiting your intake of sugar-sweetened beverages and processed foods, following a well-balanced diet, and getting plenty of physical activity in your daily routine."
So like I said before- exercise is good for your heart.
ps- if it ever turns out that exercise as a "marker" is not to be what we (I) believe, then I'm fukked.
pps- I'm fukked anyways because I have a sweet tooth.
ppps- I will continue to take my statin. See PCRD's video above. Also-
Interpretation of the evidence for the efficacy and safety of statin therapy - PubMed
This Review is intended to help clinicians, patients, and the public make informed decisions about statin therapy for the prevention of heart attacks and strokes. It explains how the evidence that is available from randomised controlled trials yields reliable information about both the efficacy...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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I will be in trouble too, but at least we are enjoying an active life. Australia's most significant centre for heart research seems to be the Victor Chang Institute and their advice still is along the lines of what you just posted.
Saturated Fat & Heart Disease – The Link Explained - Victor Chang Cardiac Research Institute
and this article ends with suggesting exercise is a good thing
How to Reduce Cholesterol Through Diet - Victor Chang Cardiac Research Institute
Hey Mr. J. Good to hear form you again. How's the surf down under?I will be in trouble too, but at least we are enjoying an active life. Australia's most significant centre for heart research seems to be the Victor Chang Institute and their advice still is along the lines of what you just posted.
Saturated Fat & Heart Disease – The Link Explained - Victor Chang Cardiac Research Institute
and this article ends with suggesting exercise is a good thing
How to Reduce Cholesterol Through Diet - Victor Chang Cardiac Research Institute
Cheers, I can see that retirement is allowing you are really healthy balanced lifestyle - your brisk weekly run, some resistance training and plenty of surfing it seems - sounds perfect.
I am not able to retire and have a comfortable life, but it feels like I am living the dream compared to pre-covid office life. I still rent the old weatherboard house on the windswept coast of regional Vic. Surfing heaps, frequently bumpy onshore and empty - but that's how I like it. Most days I take a mid afternoon break from work and go surfing or to the skatepark. My manager is fine with this because he has noted that I spit out greater quantities of code than when I was office based. Its winter now, but in summer I was frequently surfing in the morning, then a mid arvo break from work in the skatepark (avoid surfing then because of the super strong UV we get on the edge of the thinned south polar ozone), then surf again in the evening. It means working late so I don't have much free time and it is a high pressure job. It would be nice to have the time and facilities to make myself a surfboard more often, but can't complain.
Ideally I would do more resistance training, but I'm having a lot of fun with my current activities and there is nothing left in the stamina budget for any significant resistance training. I'm on a high protein/high fat, lowish carb, but not silly "low carb" diet low, for reasons related to my GI medical condition which I have mentioned to you before.
I'm keeping saturated fats low and getting through a lot of stuff such as olive oil, avocados, nut butter, nuts, canned sardines, eggs
supplementing this with whey and plant protein powder. Low fat/high protein yoghurt, reduced fat cheese too. Some fruit too - which contains fructose!
Heart health for me comes down to:
1 No smoking
2 Moderation in calories and eat variety of foods
3 Avoid processed foods
3 Exercise (gotta get sweaty) 3x a week
4 Sleep
5 Work towards peace of mind
6 Pick your parents
1 No smoking
2 Moderation in calories and eat variety of foods
3 Avoid processed foods
3 Exercise (gotta get sweaty) 3x a week
4 Sleep
5 Work towards peace of mind
6 Pick your parents
I think the Tibetans (kind of?) believe in #6.
After you die you enter the Bardo, the intermediate state. The TIbetan Book of the Dead are prayers to be read at the bedside of the dying or recently deceased. They remind the deceased that everything they are seeing are but illusions. To liberate yourself from the cycle of rebirth you are supposed detach from these visions, but most people are attracted to visions of couples making love (your parents?) and thus are sucked back in and reborn. The Tibetan monk's celibacy is meant to help resist this.
Yeah. The way I understand it. Emptiness. No self. I think it sounds really negative to western ears. Maybe peace is a better word.
In reality it is a complex issue/equation.
Regular exercise + low animal fat diet (meat, eggs, cheese, even fish, milk, ice cream, cream cheese, should be reduced significantly) + more fiber will help. If you already have plaque then statins are a must with rare exceptions. Yes, there is a tiny population subset that has strong genetic factors for heart disease.
Raise your kids on proper diets or choose your parents wisely!
Regular exercise + low animal fat diet (meat, eggs, cheese, even fish, milk, ice cream, cream cheese, should be reduced significantly) + more fiber will help. If you already have plaque then statins are a must with rare exceptions. Yes, there is a tiny population subset that has strong genetic factors for heart disease.
Raise your kids on proper diets or choose your parents wisely!
Take good care of your ticker, PPK!I had a Low BP in May, got dizzy, sweaty, drunk-like. Drove myself over to the EMT house down the street from me and told them my symptoms. They hooked me up and my BP was in the Low 30's. Took the ride to Wilcox Hospital. Phuckers didn't turn on the siren!! Got stashed in emergency for a few hours, then had a Cat Scan. Bong machine was loud. All good.
Finally got a room and started feeling better. Got a few hours of sleep and the attending Doctor came in and showed me a graph. Showed a regular heartbeat and then "flat lined" for like a slow count to 3, and then my heart reengaged. Flat lined again, then reengaged. She gave me a funny look and said I might have to go to Oahu for a Pacemaker. .Phuck me!
She then told me my Cardiologist will give me a stress test in the morning and make a decision then about going to Oahu.
Overnight at the hospital and a 0900 hrs stress test. Got to around 3 minutes until I couldn't go on. Cardiologist said I was good to go. Passed the stress test. I was supposed to head to California in two days. My travel partner freaked out. "what if it happens again while we're traveling? I told him to go on without me and finish the trip". He ghosted me. lol. lame.
Still only on 3 daily pills. Amlodipine 5mgs, a Atorvastatin 80mgs and Xarelto, which replaced my daily 80 mgs "baby aspirin" at a whopping $257.00 for 42 pills.
I balked, but then again thought, "it's for your health, dumb ass. Pay the phucken tab"
Back to work, 5 nights, 6+ hours
I'm living in a free world!!
