Harpers Magazine publishes alt right hate speech treatise, falls on wrong side of history

the janitor

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He admitted he hadn't read it before OKing it for publication.

"The Times reported that Bennet said in a meeting with staff members that he had not read the essay before it was published. And the paper added an editor’s note to the top of the original column."

Thats the edotors job, right, to read stuff before it gets published?

If it's accurate, print it.

If it's inaccurate and misinformation, why print it? THE NEW YORK TIMES IS NOT FOX NEWS

"The senator described looting in New York City as “carnivals for the thrill-seeking rich as well as other criminal elements,” and wrote that leftist antifa movement had infiltrated protest marches — which an earlier Times article had called misinformation."

You appear to be missing the point that op ed pieces are opinions, so I'm not sure that accuracy is the proper metric here because there will be differing opinions on social issues.

Did you see any of the looting videos in NYC? Hard to say what the net worth of the looters is from a video, but I seem to recall shots of people rolling up in MBZs and I think even a Bentley to pack the cars.
 

the janitor

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multiple signatories on that letter have histories of doxing people they don't like and calling for people to be fired and other actions because others expressed opinions they disliked

If you're really interested you could look into it

By the way, it should be obvious but I will say it anyway: I'm not defending the ideas that these people had problems with, I just find it somewhat hilarious that they now are arguing that the vitriol has gone too far when many of the people on this list were all about it when it didn't threaten them personally

ahh, I didn't know that, they suck, but I still like the letter
 

plasticbertrand

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Yet his first reply in this thread, directly to Janitor's first post:
"Excluding bigotry from open debate is not "ideological conformity".

It's just social norms."

The Harper's letter is addressing overreactions to unpopular statements that oftentimes are not bigoted, yet FF reduces and mischaracterizes all controversial speech to hate speech. In addition, he has cheerleaded for deplatforming at every possible type of venue and has called for US laws to change in order to make hate speech illegal.

Why you go to bat for him is beyond me.
Lie, not all controversial speech is hate speech, I've never said that because I don't believe that.

You're mischaracterizing again (fecalizing?).

Hate speech is very clearly defined as public speech that expresses hate or encourages violence towards a person or group based on something such as race, religion, color, national origin, disability, sex, or sexual orientation.

Is that even debatable?

That's not "all controversial speech", not even close.

You don't get to decide what constitutes bigotry, you are not the one on the receiving end of it.

Again, you're free to do it, you're just not free from the consequences caused by breaking social norms.

But yeah, keep spewing hate at transgender people and then claim that's not bigotry.

See how that works out for you.


Assimilate or GTFO
 
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Billy Ocean

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I am being serious.

Society is there for mutual aid, but the problem lies in people thinking they can fall back on society to save them OR blame society for their failures

At the end of the day, you’re responsible for yourself and your family
I do think it’s a little more complicated than that

there are rules that inherently favor some groups over others

for example, Harvard just announced that they will stop taking SAT scores in admissions next year

Likely other schools will follow their lead because they want to maintain diversity without objective evidence that they are categorically favoring some racial groups over others in admissions

when I read this I thought, damn, I’m really lucky I went to college in the 90s

I was really good at standardized tests but for a kid today that won’t matter

I think the end result of this is elite schools will be even more only for rich whites and minorities

middle class and poor whites who excelled on standardized tests in the past will no longer have that to differentiate themselves

these kids aren’t any less intelligent than I was but the rules have changed

this is just one example of this type of thing

so are you ultimately responsible for yourself- yes, but the existing structure effectively puts a ceiling (and floor in some cases) on the range you can provide for yourself

this is why I do have sympathy for the descendants of slaves in the US

the problem is that efforts to rebalance things in their favor inevitably seem to punish poor whites rather than elite whites, which is by design
 
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Random Guy

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I do think it’s a little more complicated than that

there are rules that inherently favor some groups over others

for example, Harvard just announced that they will stop taking SAT scores in admissions next year

Likely other schools will follow their lead because they want to maintain diversity without objective evidence that they are categorically favoring some racial groups over others in admissions

when I read this I thought, damn, I’m really lucky I went to college in the 90s

I was really good at standardized tests but for a kid today that won’t matter

I think the end result of this is elite schools will be even more only for rich whites and minorities

middle class and poor whites who excelled on standardized tests in the past will no longer have that to differentiate themselves

these kids aren’t any less intelligent than I was but the rules have changed

this is just one example of this type of thing

so are you ultimately responsible for yourself- yes, but the existing structure effectively puts a ceiling (and floor in some cases) on the range you can provide for yourself

this is why I do have sympathy for the descendants of slaves in the US

the problem is that efforts to rebalance things in their favor inevitably seem to punish poor whites rather than elite whites, which is by design
Another way of looking at it might be that including standardized tests favored white students.
So removing that levels the playing field
I’m not sure either perspective is more right than the other, but it’s a different way of looking at it
 

Autoprax

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I’m not sure either perspective is more right than the other, but it’s a different way of looking at it
I think it's about balance.

You help people too much and you demoralize them. (This is what your right wing friends would agree with. I agree too)

Some people are born unlucky (their level of intelligence and industriousness doesn't allow them to overcome the adversity/stressors life puts before them) and society can help them so they can be productive members of society. (That is what I think.)

(This goes for white people too.)

The ghetto is an untapped human resource.

And 10% you can't fix no matter what.
 
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Autoprax

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Lie, not all controversial speech is hate speech, I've never said that because I don't believe that.

You're mischaracterizing again (fecalizing?).

Hate speech is very clearly defined as public speech that expresses hate or encourages violence towards a person or group based on something such as race, religion, color, national origin, disability, sex, or sexual orientation.

Is that even debatable?

That's not "all controversial speech", not even close.

You don't get to decide what constitutes bigotry, you are not the one on the receiving end of it.

Again, you're free to do it, you're just not free from the consequences caused by breaking social norms.

But yeah, keep spewing hate at transgender people and then claim that's not bigotry.

See how that works out for you.


Assimilate or GTFO
I'd like it if people got the benefit of the doubt.

People make mistakes.

I don't need to voice my optinion on social media. It's certainly not worth loosing my job over.

I think the social norms are changing. No one is quite sure what the rules are.

At my work, when my bosses send me weekly emails about White Privilege or White Fragility, I'm not going to question what I think is faulty thinking. I'm not going to mention the double bind that is the foundation of that ideology.

But then it becomes like the emperor's new clothes.

Even before the SJ trend at school, teachers were sent the message to STFU.

I keep coming back to the idea that the admins use SJ as another way to dominate.
 
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GWS_2

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The kid was full of water before I ever got to him.

I swear.
 

ElOgro

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The kid was full of water before I ever got to him.

I swear.
If you hadn’t wasted time profiling the kid to verify that he was part of your tribe the kid would still be around for fecal to shoot his board at.
 

Ifallalot

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If you see some kid drowning where you are surfing do you intervene?
I would, but you're by no means obligated to do so

And in today's day and age where Good Samaritan protections have been removed, you're taking a risk in doing so
 

Ifallalot

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Another way of looking at it might be that including standardized tests favored white students.
So removing that levels the playing field
I’m not sure either perspective is more right than the other, but it’s a different way of looking at it
I believe that way of looking at it is some of that soft bigotry of low expectations there.

A standardized test is, by design, supposed to be completely objective and something that creates data to be measured.
 
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