Harpers Magazine publishes alt right hate speech treatise, falls on wrong side of history

Ifallalot

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Agree with all of that. Which of course makes one ask, why do it?

Answer: Virtue Signaling.
They did it because now it’s one of their own being attacked and they can see the mob coming for them. It would be a lot more impressive to see them using the same language in the article to support the right to reprehensible speech
 

Random Guy

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In fact, a lot of the current Left’s ideas are steeped in bigotry
Can you explain what you mean by that?
I don’t think that’s a generally true statement, but if you do, I’d like to understand more about you’re referring to
 

Ifallalot

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Can you explain what you mean by that?
I don’t think that’s a generally true statement, but if you do, I’d like to understand more about you’re referring to
Hatred and prejudice against men, whites, and anyone else they determine to be the oppressor class.

On top of that, there is the "soft bigotry of low expectations" that's a hallmark of many of the ideas and policies for what they determine are the "oppressed" classes, especially for blacks
 

grapedrink

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I don't know if I would ilk grapedrink as a right wing demagogue the way Harpers did. I'm not even sure I'd accuse him of engaging in right wing demagoguery. It sounds kind of fun though; what say you, grapedemagogue?
You got ilked as a Team Trumpist (from 1 of 2 posters I have on ignore) for explaining why the dotard in chief is at least not a bible humping middle east warmongering. Anything I've said that can be considered even remotely favorable towards anyone on the Right was more or less along the same lines as your comments. Otherwise I do find entertainment value in some of the characters on the Right simply for their ability to get the left riled up, although I agree with almost zero of their actual opinions.

Harpers is just cracking skulls with this. Of course the it's expected on the radical right, which is such garbage it isn't worth addressing further, but it's a new thing on the radical left.

I agree; the right has been a much bigger problem for much longer!
Which has been my point all along. Bill Maher touched on this when he spoke on Rogan earlier this year. We expect the Right to twist facts and choose religious ideology over science, so why are we allowing the Left to do the same? If you are the party of truth and ethical superiority, then hold your own to a higher standard than your opposition.
 
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Random Guy

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Soft bigotry of low expectations is an interesting viewpoint
Another viewpoint is that living in a multi generational cycle of being told you’ve got no chance to be successful, being surrounded with seeing that as the norm, with success being the exception, requires outside forces to help change that cycle
I don’t view it a lower expectations as much as growing up in environments where status quod is the norm, and some positive intervention having potentially positive effects

I grew up in a positive environment
I see others who didnt, and who have needed support to overcome that, and that’s just middle class white people with parents who kind of messed up their kids

If that is multiplied to multigenerational and someone’s social circle, I imagine the prospects for digging yourself out are way worse than being in a supportive environment

I don’t think I’ll change anyone’s mind, but it’s interesting to me that we have such different viewpoints.
 
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grapedrink

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On July 7, Harper's published "A Letter on Justice and Open Debate," which was signed by a diverse body of writers and public intellectuals. Without actually using the term "cancel culture" the letter argues that "public shaming" and "ostracism" are leading to an environment in which the "free exchange of information and ideas, the lifeblood of a liberal society, is daily becoming more constricted."

Mike Masnick of Techdirt says, "hogwash," in a piece titled "Harper's Gives Prestigious Platform To Famous Writers So They Can Whine About Being Silenced." Mike's essay is well worth reading in its entirety, but here are a couple of highlights:
:ROFLMAO:
Hogwash Mike does have somewhat of a point that there are far more avenues for someone to get their point across. What he is ignoring is that there is far more backlash for unpopular opinions, and those who express those opinions are being ostracized for them. We now have a social climate where people and even journalists are afraid to voice their actual opinions, or even pass on the opinions of others.

In Matt Taibbi's recent article he talked about an Asian American journalist who was forced to apologize for retweeting a quote from a black activist he spoke with at the protest. That's what the Harper's article is talking about. Hogwash Mike sounds like your typical Cancel Culture Apoligist Twitteratzi.
 
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Autoprax

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Soft bigotry of low expectations is an interesting viewpoint
Another viewpoint is that living in a multi generational cycle of being told you’ve got no chance to be successful, being surrounded with seeing that as the norm, with success being the exception, requires outside forces to help change that cycle
I don’t view it a lower expectations as much as growing up in environments where status quod is the norm, and some positive intervention having potentially positive effects

I grew up in a positive environment
I see others who didnt, and who have needed support to overcome that, and that’s just middle class white people with parents who kind of messed up their kids

If that is multiplied to multigenerational and someone’s social circle, I imagine the prospects for digging yourself out are way worse than being in a supportive environment

I don’t think I’ll change anyone’s mind, but it’s interesting to me that we have such different viewpoints.
No, you just have to have high expectation and you will fix the problem.

Bootstraps!
 

Random Guy

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No, you just have to have high expectation and you will fix the problem.

Bootstraps!
Well, there’s definitely people who grow up without support in a difficult environment and overcome challenges and make it on their own
And that’s, I think, the point that the so called right tries to make.

It can and does happen
 
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Autoprax

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Yes, but some people don't and it's smart to help them.

It an investment in the society.

The state college system that allowed me to pull myself out of the ghetto in the late 80s and early 90s doesn't exist now.
 

Random Guy

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Yes, but some people don't and it's smart to help them.

It an investment in the society.

The state college system that allowed me to pull myself out of the ghetto in the late 80s and early 90s doesn't exist now.
Yes, I share that view
But I understand how others have the bootstrap view, and, at least in some case, I don’t think it makes them the bad guy
 
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enframed

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Yes, but some people don't and it's smart to help them.

It an investment in the society.

The state college system that allowed me to pull myself out of the ghetto in the late 80s and early 90s doesn't exist now.
Many people on this very forum don't believe in "society" that way. It's me and my family and friends, and you and your family and friends. All against each other.
 

Autoprax

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The society you sh!t on is the one you have to live on so be careful where you sh!t.

I think it's a temperament issue.
 

enframed

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Soft bigotry of low expectations is an interesting viewpoint
Another viewpoint is that living in a multi generational cycle of being told you’ve got no chance to be successful, being surrounded with seeing that as the norm, with success being the exception, requires outside forces to help change that cycle
I don’t view it a lower expectations as much as growing up in environments where status quod is the norm, and some positive intervention having potentially positive effects

I grew up in a positive environment
I see others who didnt, and who have needed support to overcome that, and that’s just middle class white people with parents who kind of messed up their kids

If that is multiplied to multigenerational and someone’s social circle, I imagine the prospects for digging yourself out are way worse than being in a supportive environment

I don’t think I’ll change anyone’s mind, but it’s interesting to me that we have such different viewpoints.
Are you daring to bring up intergenerational trauma?
 

Random Guy

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Many people on this very forum don't believe in "society" that way. It's me and my family and friends, and you and your family and friends. All against each other.
You’re right
It seems like there’s a pretty even split between the bootstrap view and the support view
I wonder why that is
Nature or nurture?
I’ve seen people change their views over time, mostly based on personal experiences as opposed to anyone telling them they’re wrong
And I’ve seen different people change in both directions
It’s fascinating to me, but I’m lucky in that these different views and actions associated with them don’t have a direct effect. I’m lucky I can be fascinated as opposed to fvcked over by these views
 
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Autoprax

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Yes, I share that view
But I understand how others have the bootstrap view, and, at least in some case, I don’t think it makes them the bad guy
I pulled myself up by my boot straps. But I am lazy and got lucky.

My friend who is hyper industrious thinks everyone needs to be like him.

I have to tell him, "You are like a weird Breed of dog."

There are other dogs like myself that like to sit on the porch.
 

Ifallalot

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Many people on this very forum don't believe in "society" that way. It's me and my family and friends, and you and your family and friends. All against each other.
But that’s how society works. Life is a competition and at the end of the day you can only count on yourself
 

Autoprax

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Are you daring to bring up intergenerational trauma?
What is interesting to me is that some people can over come it and others can't.

The privlage of high intelligence and high industriousness.

Get those if you can.

I got screwed on both of those.
 
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enframed

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Many people on this very forum don't believe in "society" that way. It's me and my family and friends, and you and your family and friends. All against each other.

But that’s how society works. Life is a competition and at the end of the day you can only count on yourself
Are you being 100% serious? I can't tell.

Whether or not you are, it doesn't have to be that way. We can help lift each other up, even those we don't know. Many countries/societies don't operate on the competition model to the extent that we do.

Whatever, it's changing. Nothing you can do to stop it.