Harpers Magazine publishes alt right hate speech treatise, falls on wrong side of history

plasticbertrand

Michael Peterson status
Jan 12, 2009
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I'm thinking you might be overstating the case just a wee bit here, "never" and "always" are often good cues that you might be oversimplifying
Well, I've been asking for examples of these "taboo subjects" and context in which they're used but I haven't seen any.

The only examples of people getting bashed/fired, are the ones that are used in the context that Sharkbiscuit and myself mentioned above.

Using erBB as a study group, the only time transgender suicide rates are brought up is when grapeboi, ifailalot and other kooks try to discredit transgender rights.

Every time black on black crime is brought up, is in the context of trying to discredit BLM.

The only time gun violence in Chicago is brought up, is when trying to discredit the need for gun control.

These things are generally brought up by the right wing contingent who uses them as a gotcha crutch, not as a serious discussion or god forbid, the actual concern for these issues.

That's what "cancel culture" is about, bigotry.

Pretending otherwise is disingenuous.

Do you think that ifailalot, who said that "transgenders should not be accepted in any walk of life", or grapeboi who mocks transgender rights insidiously, care about transgender suicide rates? No. Yet they like to bring it up all the time.
 
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the janitor

Tom Curren status
Mar 28, 2003
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Well, I've been asking for examples of these "taboo subjects" and context in which they're used but I haven't seen any.

The only examples of people getting bashed/fired, are the ones that are used in the context Sharkbiscuit and myself mentioned above.

Using erBB as a study group, the only time transgender suicide rates are brought up is when grapeboi, ifailalot and other kooks try to discredit transgender rights.

Every time black on black crime is brought up, is in the context of trying to discredit BLM.

The only time gun violence in Chicago is brought up, is when trying to discredit the need for gun control.

These things are generally brought up by the right wing contingent who uses them as a gotcha crutch, not as a serious discussion or god forbid, the actual concern for these issues.

That's what "cancel culture" is about, bigotry.

Pretending otherwise is disingenuous.

Do you think that ifailalot, who said that "transgenders should not be accepted in any walk of life", or grapeboi who mock transgender rights, care about transgender suicide rates? Yet they like to bring it up all the time.

ok, first read the letter in question, there are several examples in there

then look at what happened to Brett Weinstein and his wife, Heather Heying, at Evergreen State.

then look at what happened to Jordan Petersen

the look at what happened to James Damore

then read this article by Matt Taibi which has a ton of examples: https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-news-media-is-destroying-itself
 

GDaddy

Duke status
Jan 17, 2006
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Carlsbad
"Let's have an honest discussion" does not exist when whatever dialog which does ensues isn't even a discussion, let alone honest.

A demand to STFU isn't a discussion. Nor is it motivated by any honest intentions.
 

Billy Ocean

Duke status
Jan 7, 2017
18,203
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Well, I've been asking for examples of these "taboo subjects" and context in which they're used but I haven't seen any.

The only examples of people getting bashed/fired, are the ones that are used in the context that Sharkbiscuit and myself mentioned above.

Using erBB as a study group, the only time transgender suicide rates are brought up is when grapeboi, ifailalot and other kooks try to discredit transgender rights.

Every time black on black crime is brought up, is in the context of trying to discredit BLM.

The only time gun violence in Chicago is brought up, is when trying to discredit the need for gun control.

These things are generally brought up by the right wing contingent who uses them as a gotcha crutch, not as a serious discussion or god forbid, the actual concern for these issues.

That's what "cancel culture" is about, bigotry.

Pretending otherwise is disingenuous.

Do you think that ifailalot, who said that "transgenders should not be accepted in any walk of life", or grapeboi who mocks transgender rights insidiously, care about transgender suicide rates? Yet they like to bring it up all the time.
anytime anyone in CHINA says sh!t about how corrupt and evil the Chinese government is, it’s because they’re haters who hate China
 

plasticbertrand

Michael Peterson status
Jan 12, 2009
2,103
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ok, first read the letter in question, there are several examples in there

then look at what happened to Brett Weinstein and his wife, Heather Heying, at Evergreen State.

then look at what happened to Jordan Petersen

the look at what happened to James Damore

then read this article by Matt Taibi which has a ton of examples: https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-news-media-is-destroying-itself
Okay I'll read the letter and let you know.

Off the top of my head, I know for fact in which context Jordan Peterson used it.

It's exactly what I'm talking about.

Nobody got canceled for genuinely discussing transgender suicide rates.

People get clipped for using transgender suicide rates in the to quest to discredit, mock and deride transgender rights.

Pretending otherwise is disingenuous.
 
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plasticbertrand

Michael Peterson status
Jan 12, 2009
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A demand to STFU isn't a discussion. Nor is it motivated by any honest intentions.
Neither is using black on black crime to deride protests against police brutality.

It's just a gotcha crutch for you. Not an honest discussion.
 
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Sharkbiscuit

Tom Curren status
Aug 6, 2003
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I'm sure there are examples of cancel culture from the early-mid 2000s, but I'm having trouble coming up with them. I guess Guantanamo is cancel culture as practiced by the State, probably same could be said for the Patriot Act and Robert Novack vs. Valerie Plame. But for hot citizen on citizen action, what have you got?

It predates social media for the most part, so maybe that's the big differentiator?
Bill Maher's show getting booted is the best cancellation I can come up with.

The whole jingoist shitshow until the writing on the wall became clear in Iraq would be another example I'd venture. Boycotting (or in some idiot's cases, buying and then dumping) French wine. Freedom Fries. To add insult to injury, the same ilks were calling the NYT "liberal" back then, but they were a driving force in getting us into that mess.

The fact that we can come up with the state doing this easily is exactly the point. It wasn't until half an hour ago the Supreme Court decided you couldn't be fired for being gay.

Do you honestly think 0 people in the private sector have ever been fired for being gay?

 

plasticbertrand

Michael Peterson status
Jan 12, 2009
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Bill Maher's show getting booted is the best cancellation I can come up with.

The whole jingoist shitshow until the writing on the wall became clear in Iraq would be another example I'd venture. Boycotting (or in some idiot's cases, buying and then dumping) French wine. Freedom Fries. To add insult to injury, the same ilks were calling the NYT "liberal" back then, but they were a driving force in getting us into that mess.

The fact that we can come up with the state doing this easily is exactly the point. It wasn't until half an hour ago the Supreme Court decided you couldn't be fired for being gay.

Do you honestly think 0 people in the private sector have ever been fired for being gay?

Quoted for emphasis. :whistle:
 

the janitor

Tom Curren status
Mar 28, 2003
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Bill Maher's show getting booted is the best cancellation I can come up with.

The whole jingoist shitshow until the writing on the wall became clear in Iraq would be another example I'd venture. Boycotting (or in some idiot's cases, buying and then dumping) French wine. Freedom Fries. To add insult to injury, the same ilks were calling the NYT "liberal" back then, but they were a driving force in getting us into that mess.

The fact that we can come up with the state doing this easily is exactly the point. It wasn't until half an hour ago the Supreme Court decided you couldn't be fired for being gay.

Do you honestly think 0 people in the private sector have ever been fired for being gay?

good point about fired while gay, I have blinders on that one on account of living in SF Bay where that largely hasn't been an issue for quite some time
 
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GDaddy

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Neither is using black on black crime to deride protests against police brutality.

It's just a gotcha crutch for you. Not an honest discussion.
When one of the talking point of the protests is that blacks are overpoliced and that talking point is directly contradicted by the arrests for all types of crimes including crimes of violence then talking about that higher degree of criminality absolutely is part of the honest conversation.

When another talking point is that blacks are shot out of proportion to their representation but the relevant reference of contact is how often they're arrested - particularly for crimes of violence - then THAT is also a part of an honest conversation.

What's a crutch is when you deny any relationship to the number of contacts with the police (aka arrests) and how often it returns the most negative outcome. Regardless of race.

"STFU" is definitely not a legitimate form of discourse.
 

Billy Ocean

Duke status
Jan 7, 2017
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Bill Maher's show getting booted is the best cancellation I can come up with.

The whole jingoist shitshow until the writing on the wall became clear in Iraq would be another example I'd venture. Boycotting (or in some idiot's cases, buying and then dumping) French wine. Freedom Fries. To add insult to injury, the same ilks were calling the NYT "liberal" back then, but they were a driving force in getting us into that mess.

The fact that we can come up with the state doing this easily is exactly the point. It wasn't until half an hour ago the Supreme Court decided you couldn't be fired for being gay.

Do you honestly think 0 people in the private sector have ever been fired for being gay?

yes

And this sh!t can reverse very easily

maybe I start sending people to camps for talking sh!t about Oasis

you never know!
 
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hammies

Miki Dora status
Apr 8, 2006
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Okay I'll read the letter and let you know.

Off the top of my head, I know for fact in which context Jordan Peterson used it.

It's exactly what I'm talking about.

Nobody got canceled for genuinely discussing transgender suicide rates.

People get clipped for using transgender suicide rates in the to quest to discredit, mock and deride transgender rights.

Pretending otherwise is disingenuous.
Here's how it works, using your example:

Imagine a professor does a bunch of analysis and discovers that trans people have suicide rates 10x the average. Let's say that remains true if the suicides are in a place that is open to and supportive of transgenders (SF maybe?) or places that are hostile to transgenders (maybe like Jackson, Miss??)

It is unlikely that any article or commentary about the study would be published in most of "mainstream" or "liberal" media, since the content of the study is not complimentary to transgender people, and owners and publishers of that media generally don't like to publish that kind of stuff since it goes against their established biases. It would likely only be published in "right-wing" media, who is controlled by people who are biased in the opposite direction of the mainstream/liberal guys. Upon publication, the opposing side would have a "how dare you" moment and start publishing hit pieces on the professor, accusing her or him of having anti-trans biases, being a bigot, yada yada yada. Then the Twitter mob kicks in with all their lighthearted fun. The professor's admins would then have to defend him or her and promise not to allow such inflammatory work in the future, and so on. The professor's grant base immediately gets smaller as he or she is now radioactive and nobody wants to fund a proven bigot. The professor is effectively "canceled".
 

Autoprax

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ok, first read the letter in question, there are several examples in there

then look at what happened to Brett Weinstein and his wife, Heather Heying, at Evergreen State.

then look at what happened to Jordan Petersen

the look at what happened to James Damore

then read this article by Matt Taibi which has a ton of examples: https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-news-media-is-destroying-itself
There are guys on the right doing what fecal is saying and then there are guys on the left getting ilk'd for not agreeing with some of the crazy lefty ideas.

Both things are occurring.

I'm a lefty.

I think we should help people who lack the cognitive resources and industriousness to overcome the societal hurdles they can't overcome without a little help. (I was definitely one of these lazy stupid people who needed help. But look at me now, I'm an amazing success.)

Most of the time, it's not that much help people need. Sometimes it's just a matter of building self efficacy.

That is pretty left winger.

But some of the lefty stuff is cray cray.

Some of these people go on autopilot in their thinking.

I think they think it's okay because right is on their side.

Not to change the subject, but we got bigger fish to fry with this damn pandemic.
 
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GWS_2

Michael Peterson status
Aug 3, 2019
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Yup.

You know, today I realized that there is NO PLACE I go, anywhere IRL, that is as full of hate and anger as the erBB politics forum.

With the possible exception of an occasional watching of Fox News and CNN. Although that's not exactly IRL is it?

I probably just need to get out me.
 
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Ifallalot

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Dec 17, 2008
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Here's how it works, using your example:

Imagine a professor does a bunch of analysis and discovers that trans people have suicide rates 10x the average. Let's say that remains true if the suicides are in a place that is open to and supportive of transgenders (SF maybe?) or places that are hostile to transgenders (maybe like Jackson, Miss??)

It is unlikely that any article or commentary about the study would be published in most of "mainstream" or "liberal" media, since the content of the study is not complimentary to transgender people, and owners and publishers of that media generally don't like to publish that kind of stuff since it goes against their established biases. It would likely only be published in "right-wing" media, who is controlled by people who are biased in the opposite direction of the mainstream/liberal guys. Upon publication, the opposing side would have a "how dare you" moment and start publishing hit pieces on the professor, accusing her or him of having anti-trans biases, being a bigot, yada yada yada. Then the Twitter mob kicks in with all their lighthearted fun. The professor's admins would then have to defend him or her and promise not to allow such inflammatory work in the future, and so on. The professor's grant base immediately gets smaller as he or she is now radioactive and nobody wants to fund a proven bigot. The professor is effectively "canceled".
Nailed it
 

Ifallalot

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Dec 17, 2008
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Yup.

You know, today I realized that there is NO PLACE I go, anywhere IRL, that is as full of hate and anger as the erBB politics forum.

With the possible exception of an occasional watching of Fox News and CNN. Although that's not exactly IRL is it?

I probably just need to get out me.
I'm on Facebook groups that are worse. Reddit is far worse

The constant is politics. I'll let you guess which side is more full of hate and anger