Harpers Magazine publishes alt right hate speech treatise, falls on wrong side of history

Random Guy

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Jan 16, 2002
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Seems like there’s quite a few posters who are very worked up on this thread
Seems like there’s a lot of posts by people strongly voicing their own views
But I don’t really see a lot of people trying to find common ground, or trying to understand the underlying causes of the “other sides’” view
I don’t see much acknowledgement that the “other side” may have some valid point or a reasonable, though differing, view
Most people here are neither evil nor perfect
Consider finding common ground. It may be the beginning of an mind opening experience
 

ElOgro

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Dec 3, 2010
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Seems like there’s quite a few posters who are very worked up on this thread
Seems like there’s a lot of posts by people strongly voicing their own views
But I don’t really see a lot of people trying to find common ground, or trying to understand the underlying causes of the “other sides’” view
I don’t see much acknowledgement that the “other side” may have some valid point or a reasonable, though differing, view
Most people here are neither evil nor perfect
Consider finding common ground. It may be the beginning of an mind opening experience
Is punching Nazi scum ok? Advocating the punching of Nazi scum? In this great compromise who makes the final decision on what is not acceptable?
 

the janitor

Tom Curren status
Mar 28, 2003
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north of the bridge
Seems like there’s quite a few posters who are very worked up on this thread
Seems like there’s a lot of posts by people strongly voicing their own views
But I don’t really see a lot of people trying to find common ground, or trying to understand the underlying causes of the “other sides’” view
I don’t see much acknowledgement that the “other side” may have some valid point or a reasonable, though differing, view
Most people here are neither evil nor perfect
Consider finding common ground. It may be the beginning of an mind opening experience
I think that is the point of the letter in question. Instead of trying to virtually crucify someone because they said something I disagree with, we should collectively be having a discussion in the public square so to speak. Rushing to dox someone or get them fired or yank their patreon etc. isn't that
 

kidfury

Kelly Slater status
Oct 14, 2017
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Was Al Franken "doxxed?" He was pretty much "cancelled." Is he a bad person? I'd say no. Seems to me he's an exceptionally good person. Especially for a politician.
 

Random Guy

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Jan 16, 2002
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Is punching Nazi scum ok? Advocating the punching of Nazi scum? In this great compromise who makes the final decision on what is not acceptable?
Is that the litmus test?
Some stories have no good guy
But I would wonder what would make someone identify with the nazis
Or why someone would think the best course of action is violence

And I thank you for your thoughtful and thought provoking post
 

kidfury

Kelly Slater status
Oct 14, 2017
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Here we go....
 

the janitor

Tom Curren status
Mar 28, 2003
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What taboo subject is there, that we can't talk about anymore?

The reason the SJW is even a thing is because the mob who previously ruled was your mob. That's why you didn't see it as a mob.

SJW is way over the top but for a reason - the more grapebois screech, the worse is going to get. The racism and bigotry is coming all the way from the top psychopath in the land, he made it normal and it's worse than ever. That's why SJW exist in the first place.

The correct response is indifference with a dose of compassion.

But some people just can't.
sample taboo* subjects: attempted suicide rates for the trans community; black on black crime; sexual harassment/rape/discrimination in the military; a few weeks ago I'd have added diverging from the official narrative on covid data and how that informs our lockdown policies

the last time the opposing mob had the ball was probably 80s when religious conservatives got scared by rap and crack and disney movies and evolution. That isn't my mob

*taboo meaning if you try to discuss the issue there is a high likelyhood that your career is in jeopardy
 

ElOgro

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Dec 3, 2010
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Is that the litmus test?
Some stories have no good guy
But I would wonder what would make someone identify with the nazis
Or why someone would think the best course of action is violence

And I thank you for your thoughtful and thought provoking post
I forgot to login as Skully.

Here’s one out of the 12rules playbook:

There’s one poster here that has advocated violence against nazis and proudbois.

Lots of thought provoking stuff here. See Hal’s posting history.
 
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Random Guy

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I forgot to login as Skully.

Here’s one out of the 12rules playbook:

There’s one poster here that has advocated violence against nazis and proudbois.

Lots of thought provoking stuff here. See Hal’s posting history.
I’m sensing a lack of willingness to understanding the other side
And I don’t know what side you’re on
But you seem more combative than open

But this is the internet, and it’s certainly possible I’m reading you wrong
 

Sharkbiscuit

Tom Curren status
Aug 6, 2003
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Jacksonville Beach
Seems like there’s quite a few posters who are very worked up on this thread
Seems like there’s a lot of posts by people strongly voicing their own views
But I don’t really see a lot of people trying to find common ground, or trying to understand the underlying causes of the “other sides’” view
I don’t see much acknowledgement that the “other side” may have some valid point or a reasonable, though differing, view
Most people here are neither evil nor perfect
Consider finding common ground. It may be the beginning of an mind opening experience
The article prompting this discussion asserted as a matter of fact, thesis statement, that the police are the problem. It didn't wonder where the police are coming from, or what their valid point or reasonable, though differing view is.

Ditto the right wing. The article matter-of-factly wrote them off in their entirety. Not even worth understanding their view or what causes it, or speaking to them at all.

The implication is that Tom Cotton's opinion isn't worth the paper it's printed on and engaging with him and his ilk is a waste of oxygen. That they lament the firing of the NYT editorial page editor for not reading it the sh!t he's ostensibly responsible for editing....

What do you think happens if you get a job pumping gas in New Jersey and you decide you can't be bothered to look at what handle you grabbed, as an excuse for dumping a tankload of 93 octane into a diesel vehicle?
 
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plasticbertrand

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Jan 12, 2009
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sample taboo* subjects: attempted suicide rates for the trans community; black on black crime; sexual harassment/rape/discrimination in the military; a few weeks ago I'd have added diverging from the official narrative on covid data and how that informs our lockdown policies
I don't think any of those are taboo subjects.

Pay attention to CONTEXT.

Has anybody ever talked about transgender suicide rates outside of the context of mocking/discrediting transgender rights?

I don't think so.

Did anybody ever talk about black on black crime outside of the context of trying to discredit the anti-police brutality protests and BLM?

Never.

Those are not taboo subjects, it's the bigotry that's attached to it that's a problem.

Talking about transgender suicide rates while at the same time saying "transgenders should not be accepted in any walk of life", is what makes it a "taboo".
It's bigotry, plain and simple.
 
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Sharkbiscuit

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Aug 6, 2003
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sample taboo* subjects: attempted suicide rates for the trans community; black on black crime; sexual harassment/rape/discrimination in the military; a few weeks ago I'd have added diverging from the official narrative on covid data and how that informs our lockdown policies

the last time the opposing mob had the ball was probably 80s when religious conservatives got scared by rap and crack and disney movies and evolution. That isn't my mob

*taboo meaning if you try to discuss the issue there is a high likelyhood that your career is in jeopardy
Early-mid 2000s the opposing mob had the ball.

If black on black crime, specifically the drug turf war in Chicago, was brought up in any context other than as a right wing whataboutist response to white on black police brutality or gun control, I'm pretty sure you'd get a hilariously different reaction.
 
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plasticbertrand

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Early-mid 2000s the opposing mob had the ball.

If black on black crime, specifically the drug turf war in Chicago, was brought up in any context other than as a right wing whataboutist response to white on black police brutality or gun control, I'm pretty sure you'd get a hilariously different reaction.
Exactly what I was trying to say but in Serbglish.
 

the janitor

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Mar 28, 2003
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I don't think any of those are taboo subjects.

Pay attention to CONTEXT.

Has anybody ever talked about transgender suicide rates outside of the context of mocking/discrediting transgender rights?

I don't think so.

Did anybody ever talk about black on black crime outside of the context of trying to discredit the anti-police brutality protests and BLM?

Never.

Those are not taboo subjects, it's the bigotry that's attached to it that's a problem.

Talking about transgender suicide rates while at the same time saying "transgenders should not be accepted in any walk of life", is what makes it a "taboo".
It's bigotry, plain and simple.
I'm thinking you might be overstating the case just a wee bit here, "never" and "always" are often good cues that you might be oversimplifying
 

the janitor

Tom Curren status
Mar 28, 2003
11,428
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north of the bridge
Early-mid 2000s the opposing mob had the ball.

If black on black crime, specifically the drug turf war in Chicago, was brought up in any context other than as a right wing whataboutist response to white on black police brutality or gun control, I'm pretty sure you'd get a hilariously different reaction.
I'm sure there are examples of cancel culture from the early-mid 2000s, but I'm having trouble coming up with them. I guess Guantanamo is cancel culture as practiced by the State, probably same could be said for the Patriot Act and Robert Novack vs. Valerie Plame. But for hot citizen on citizen action, what have you got?

It predates social media for the most part, so maybe that's the big differentiator?
 

Billy Ocean

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Jan 7, 2017
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sample taboo* subjects: attempted suicide rates for the trans community; black on black crime; sexual harassment/rape/discrimination in the military; a few weeks ago I'd have added diverging from the official narrative on covid data and how that informs our lockdown policies

the last time the opposing mob had the ball was probably 80s when religious conservatives got scared by rap and crack and disney movies and evolution. That isn't my mob

*taboo meaning if you try to discuss the issue there is a high likelyhood that your career is in jeopardy
How would you like tipper gore deciding whether you were worthy of being employed