Hand Kite Foiling

Muscles · May 8, 2020

How much wind is enough wind?

I've debated learning how to use the wing. I live next to Kailua beach and see a lot of foil sailboards, kites, windsurf, etc...I'd say the wind is roughly 15-25 onshore a lot of the year. I really want to learn sailboard foiling since it looks awesome.

Hdip · May 8, 2020

If there are a lot of people out. Take note of what they're riding. (preferably talk to them) Buy the gear they're on. Use them as your guniea pig.

Are you giving those speeds in MPH or knots? In MPH 15 seems to be the low end to learn. Then once you learn you may be able to go below that. 20 MPH seems to be well powered. I'd say you have enough wind to give it a go.

Edit: on the talking to people front. When I was learning to kite I was intimidated to talk to the other guys thinking it'd be like trying to talk to grumpy surfers. They're all super nice. The amazing thing about these niche sports is they aren't overcrowded yet so people are excited to talk about it and are usually really helpful. It really makes surfing look less appealing.

Hdip · May 15, 2020

Gave it my first real go today. Sidenote: I paddled it out the other day at a small beachbreak and marginal wind just to see how it would work, getting it in and out. Felt good. Made it out without being caught by a wave. Messed around for awhile, then made it back in without being caught by a wave. Not counting that session as I knew it wasn't enough wind.

Today was enough wind. Perhaps to much wind by the end. The problem was it was 3 foot beach break that you had to paddle to get outside. My plan of attack is to have my board leash and the wing leash on my leg. Walk out as far as I can and then time the sets to try and paddle out. I turned around twice and made it out twice. Drifted 2 lifeguard towers south each time I made it out before I made an attempt to get in safely. The first time I made it in somewhat clean. 2nd time I got completely rolled.

While I did get on my feet and make a few valiant efforts. I never broke the board above the surface. I had some OK success getting a feel for trying to feather the power in the wing while sitting and got a bit of forward motion. I see why a SUP foil is recommended.

At the same time I realized I don't exactly like being at the beach when it's windy. Maybe that's why I stopped kitesurfing all those years ago.

juandesooka · May 15, 2020

Right on Hdip, great you got out for a start. Some people brag about it being a 3.7 minute learning curve. Most regular folks it seems to be about 10 sessions. But can be less if you have locals who are ahead of you: ensuring you have right gear for the day makes a huge difference, that was 6-7 of my 10 day start up.

The first lessons are: a bigger more stable board is your friend on those first days. Standing on a small sup foil in 2ft wind chop, without forward momentum, is brutal. Biggest foil wing you have as far forward you can get it will maximize lift....getting "unstuck" from the surface. More wind is good....if it is 12m kiting wind, you will struggle on a 7m. If kiters are having fun on 8m, then a 4m-5m wing will also be fun. At the start it takes way more wind and lift than you might think it should.

And once you whip into a waist high peeler and foil it 100m with the wing luffed, then turn back out, tack upwind, and get another, without paddling ... then I expect you'll feel different about the wind.

Hdip · May 15, 2020

Hah to your video. Guys were kiting 9's or smaller today, fully lit on twin tips. I was proficient at kiting. The problem is it's not surfing. If there weren't stupid parking restrictions still, I could've gone and prone foiled Mondo's and had a bunch of fun. If I felt like walking into a private beach I could've foiled with Laird and a bunch of rich entitled grumpy old guys and Strider. I've already figured out my windy day options around here. I only want the wing to learn downwinders. That's where I think it will shine around here. We don't have beautiful foil waves that are in the wind. We do have downwind runs though.

Steamroller already ordered a 6m wasp he told me, so my easy sale of gear to him is off the table I guess. I just need to find a SUP foil board to borrow. The problem is I don't actually foil with people. That's why I learned to prone foil all by myself. I'll go down to another spot where I learned to kite that has very small beach break where I can get out easier. Zuma isn't a good learning spot.

EDIT: I have my lift 200 classic which is what I had on today. With the wing they guy also sold me an easy foiler 1750cm wing. I've never used it. I'm reluctant to put it on as going back to aluminum seems so heavy. It's really worth it to use the bigger wing though?

juandesooka · May 15, 2020

easy foiler big would be a perfect wing foil ... weight is pretty much irrelevant with the wind assistance I figure, maybe it even helps. And bigger the better for sure. (assuming 1750 is bigger than your lift 200)

I tried winging today and failed ... ended up kiting instead, then the wind picked up. Oh well. No surf/waves, just flat water. We get pretty decent wind swell on the windier days, I am stoked to give a downwinder a try with the wing too. I am generally a little sketched on kite downwinders, as the landing sites are iffy and the wind can change a lot from starting point to finish, leading to disaster. But with wing/sup, can just paddle it in if need be. Once distancing lessens and we can buddy up, the potential is there.

Hdip · May 15, 2020

Just checked the wind graph on ikitesurf.com. It was apparently 15-18 with gusts over 25. That 5M was getting pulled around like crazy at times. I'm gonna equip the larger foil finally and give it a real go. Supposed to blow again tomorrow but I'm not sure I'll have time.

Edit: My disillusionment from yesterday has worn off. I think I may have figured out something I was doing wrong. I believe I was trying to start with the wing pointed to across the wind window to start. The few attempts I did start to get some pull while on my feet the wing tip hit the water to fast. I need to have the wing pointing much more vertical until I break the nose of the board from the water. Even if that's pulling me straight downwind first.

juandesooka · May 15, 2020

This may be kooky AF, but I put some xmas fun money into this kickstarter:

Boost Fin: Electric Motorized Fin for any Board

First electric surf fin provides 20 pounds of turbocharged energy to catch up to 3 times more waves. | Check out 'Boost Fin: Electric Motorized Fin for any Board' on Boost Fin.

boostsurfing.com

The surfing aspect is a joke, but my dream is to attach this to my foil mast or in a finbox just behind it, then use the 8-second burst to get me up onto the foil in waves that are otherwise too weak to get going. If I was a 20 year old pump monkey that could do beach starts, maybe I wouldn't need it ... but at a moderately healthy 51, I can use all the help I can get!

The main hope was to use this for surf foil, on the days where my SUP foil gives me paddling advantages. Mini tow-in without a waverunner. But this could also work well for foil downwinders.

And after my failed low-wind wing attempt last night....maybe it could be a magic ingredient there too. Once you are up on the foil, you can pump the board and wing to stay up in light wind. The challenge is getting "unstuck". With just a slight boost, may buy a few sessions that are otherwise long walks of shame. Will report back once the testing begins! ;-)

juandesooka · May 17, 2020

I tried my buddy's duotone briefly yesterday. I know that wing has pros and cons, but i now sure understand why some people like the boom. So easily controlled with subtle hand shifts, solid positive connection. Gybes are much easier, can kinda push off against the bar. If you get a chance to demo, it's worth trying out.

Hdip · May 18, 2020

Plus if I don't click with it soon I'll have a 5m for sale

juandesooka · May 19, 2020

The progression contiues. 3 sessions this weekend.
1. Super low wind in front of my house: a no-launch option for kiting. Just barely able to get up, got 4-5 reaches, and then a bunch of slogging. Will be fun on the windier days. But wondering if this Gong 7m has what I need or if another brand/model would have better low-end grunt.
2. Light-ish wind in small waves: Gong 7m worked unreal, consistently up and riding, steady wind makes this so much better / so easy. Waves were a challenge as the only peak had a buncha beginners in the way. Plus quite shallow, cutbacks into the peak ended in groundings.
3. Stronger wind in small waves: over powered on Gong 7m, the Wasp 4m was perfect....endless loops into little waves, once in them can pump and foilsurf....the muscle memory from 100s of hours of sup/surf foiling paying off. Also fun to ride the marching wind swell downwind, could feel the drop and pump along, but would lose them ... I think it's time to experiment with higher aspect wings (trade off of less lift than maliko 200 but able to go faster to stay with wind swell). GPS watch for half my 3 hour session says 13miles covered, max speed 14mph.

But one thing is clear: this is going to be legit in real swell, so much looking forward to getting a proper wave day. Too bad we're in flat season for next 5 months or so. :-(

Hdip · May 20, 2020

Wind was super strong yesterday. But, I got access to the wind protected private beach so I chickened out of winging and prone foiled super long waves instead. Pretty fun. There were 5 foils out the day before and 3 of us out yesterday. Looks like everyone has finally caught up to this foil thing.

One guy was on a 1550 armstrong. That thing is fast and efficient. I followed after him on a pump run and he doubled my distance. He also has a GL180 and has ridden it once, but didn't like the way it turned so he sticks on the armstrong.

It's a good thing I have no money to waste on buying every wing imaginable, because I could easily go down a rabbit hole of trying to ride everything.

grendel95 · May 20, 2020

Hdip said:
It's a good thing I have no money to waste on buying every wing imaginable, because I could easily go down a rabbit hole of trying to ride everything.

I try to convince myself I don't have a problem...

steamroller · May 21, 2020

Hey Kaser...i see kai and kdmaui are both on Ens!s wings now...from early reports i heard they are WAAAAY stiffer and faster than everything else out there...next time you see those guys out can ask to take it for a spin and report back...alex said no more 6mGofoil wings availableon backorder for at *least* 3weeks which means 6 to 8 weeks minimum... which means summernis gonna be over ...i might want to try one of those Ens!s thingys...thanks

juandesooka · May 26, 2020

steamroller said:
Hey Kaser...i see kai and kdmaui are both on Ens!s wings now...from early reports i heard they are WAAAAY stiffer and faster than everything else out there...next time you see those guys out can ask to take it for a spin and report back...alex said no more 6mGofoil wings availableon backorder for at *least* 3weeks which means 6 to 8 weeks minimum... which means summernis gonna be over ...i might want to try one of those Ens!s thingys...thanks

What is Ens!s? Stiffer sounds good. My Gong 7m Gen1, I figure it loses a lot of its low-end advantage in being so floppy.

Interesting to see GregD making Cloud wings. In kitefoil world, Clouds are a cult. I am sure they will get a lot of intrabrand crossover into the wings. Will be curious to hear some independent reviews. The cynic in me says these wings are such simple designs, and to a large extent all look much the same, how different can any brand's offering be? But I have experienced the difference first-hand, so I know there's something there ... just haven't cracked the code yet. The code being how to get Ozone/F-One quality but at Gong/Alibaba prices. ;-)

Hdip · May 27, 2020

Wind didn’t come up. Waves were small. So I used my wing with a skateboard in the beach parking lot. Kinda fun. I think I’ll have a better go next time there’s wind. Although I sure wouldn’t say no to a 75 liter wing board.

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