Hand Kite Foiling

Kaser1

Tom Curren status
May 3, 2004
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great review kaser. Agree wholeheartedly about the overpower vs underpower thing....better to have to spill off excess power rather than frantically pumping to get up. My 51yr old arms can manage about 10 minutes of that, then this wingding is just too heavy to hold up. Man o man am I jealous of the wind/wave spot potential you have on a small island in the middle of the ocean. Kinda like new zealand, in a 2 hour drive it's always windy / wavey somewhere from any given direction. Here on vancouver island we're spot starved and limited swell window. Ah well, we have other benefits.

Hdip: will be stoked to hear your progression! I think your 4.8 will be really challenging, especially if you don't have hooks/straps. If I was you, I'd be looking to borrow someone's sup foil at least for first 5-10 learning sessions. But maybe you might consider some stick-on straps, if not put in some strap plugs. I haven't tried with straps yet, but I am looking forward to finishing my new DIY surf foil (5.0), i put in some inserts for foot hooks, will be interesting to see how it is with wing. I am quite sure water starts will require lots of wind (just like windsurfing, need that pop to get up). Also, regular foot will be a lot easier than goofy ... that's a challenge with winging for surfers, have to learn to ride wrong foot forward...which is awkward enough on the water surface, but way more variables to figure out up on foil!
I was winging with a friend on his Naish 4.6 yesterday, crazy difference speed. I could smoke him on every reach, he was about 30lbs lighter, on a 50L wingboard, granted he wasn't on a HA foil. In comparison, I was on my 115L SUP foil board on my GL180.

In regards to wind/wave here on Maui, yes you can usually find wind somewhere here most days but can't always match that up with waves. Maui has some heavy shadowing from other islands but the most exposed as most know is the Hookipa area that is the windsurfing capital of the world most say. Which means it gets crowded with windsurfers so we have to go elsewhere. And most of the other spots are dominated by kiters and older windsurfers, so we are the new kids on the block trying to carve out our own little spot out there. Which is partially why I got the 6m to go out those good spots that the kiters or windsurfers won't bother with in light winds. The foil is the advantage.
 
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Hdip

Michael Peterson status
Apr 23, 2005
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Hand wing out on the Ventura point camera right now. Mine is sitting in a box at my house. Haven't even opened it yet. *sigh*

Edit: Went home and opened up my new toy since I wasn't getting any work done anyway. Duotone 5M. First impressions. Super annoying you can't fold it due to the windows so the bag is as tall as me. Having to thread the boom on each time is sort of annoying too.

The duotone pump is so much more superior to the stock standard pump I had from when I kited. It has a pressure gauge on top and everything. Pumps up so fast. Only a leading edge to inflate, no struts as it uses a boom and battens.

There was wind today, but it was blowing at a weird angle for my street and I have big pine trees and houses and all kinds of stuff blocking the wind. Still, I walked up and down the street just to see if I could get any wind in it and see what it feels like. When there isn't any wind, yes it's heavy to hold up. When there is wind though, it is pulling you up since you hold it like a wing.

I eventually grabbed my skateboard to see if I could make any apparent wind. I was able to hit a couple gybes in the cul-de-sac. (that's the downwind turn right) Then I got a couple decent 2 or 3 house runs where I'd push to get some speed as a gust hit and was able to feel some pull from the wing.

I also got a blue planet easy foiler L at 1750 CM. It's nicer than I thought it would be. I didn't really look at it to closely though. Just opened the box and grabbed the wing out for a moment. I'll probably try it out at least to start as it's bigger than my lift 200.
 
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Kaser1

Tom Curren status
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A tip for those new to the wing, relax your arms. I see alot of new people fighting the wing in the wind. I was the same as I didn't have much instruction either.

I typically keep my front arm straight, just holding on with my fingers, arm muscles relaxed. The only time I use the front arm is to adjust pitch of the nose or to lift the wing above my head to take a peak around to see if anyone is near. Think of it like you were hanging from a pull up bar, arms relaxed.

Your back arm is doing most of the movement, pulling in and out based upon adjusting to the wind. But I try and keep this arm also fairly straight.
 

Kaser1

Tom Curren status
May 3, 2004
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Had my first "walk of shame" the other day. We've been alittle wind starved the past week, so the slightest hint of wind and I'm out the door.

Was seeing the wind in the trees at my house and texted a couple winger buddies that were itching to go too. We all agreed to a spot and were headed that way. Driving down the coast I could see it was on. Maybe 15knts which was plenty for my 6m. Surf was in the 3-4 foot range.

We rigged up and walked down the the launch spot, a tiny key hole in the reef which makes getting in tricky. Wind was a tad lighter but enough to go. Winger 1 launched, was able to get up with alittle work. I was next, slogged out and wasn't able to get it going as wind was getting light but still had some puffs. Limped out past reef and was now in blue water, deep and dark. A puff came and I got up on foil. Made a couple passes and came off foil on a jibe. Wind now was borderline. Winger 3 saw the struggle and didnt launch. I kept an eye on #3 cause he has the most experience in wind sports, windsurfer from the 80's. When I saw he wasn't coming out, I better head in. By that time, winger #1 made his way into the keyhole and was getting out.

I was about a mile out, not enough wind to get on foil, I took the leash off my wrist, attached to my ankle, and prone paddled. Paddling for about 15 minutes, still outside the reef about half way in, I see a puff coming, so i get ready, leash back on wrist. I was able to get up and going. But I'm a goofyfoot and can only get going one way, which was headed back out to sea. And instead of getting on foil and making a quick u turn, I got greedy and kept heading out. Then again, on jibe I came off foil as wind was again too light. And there i was, back where I started last time over a mile out.

This time paddling back in, I told myself even if a puff comes, just keep paddling in and don't mess with heading back out. It was getting late and if I kept farking around I'd be paddling back in after dark.

On the paddle in, I notice a Iwa bird circling over me and then does a little fly by. I didn't think much of it at the time.

As I get close to the reef, can see that the swell had picked up, and was now in the 4+ range. I stopped and sat just outside to assess the situation. I have a 6m wing tied to my ankle, prone paddling a 5.10 SUP with a GL180 mounted. This had all the makings of a wing sushimi. I watched a couple sets roll through and decided in order to pull this off I had to time it and get lucky paddling. Set rolls through and I follow after it's done. I was about half way through the impact zone and a 2 wave set catches up to me. Instead of letting the wave get the wing and mow me over, I paddle parallel to the beach so the wave hits the wing and me at the same time. Was able to make it through, into the keyhole unscathed.

My buddies waited til I got in to keep an eye on me. After I got my gear on the beach we all talked about the session. They were giving me a hard time about the rookie mistakes, etc.. also talked about the Iwa bird circling me. My buddy was like ey, you usually see those circling above looking at fish below, that means bigger fish looking at those fish.
 

Hdip

Michael Peterson status
Apr 23, 2005
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Also I noticed you can't really fight the roll of the wing. Am I correct in this thought. To get the wing to roll over to one side or the other you can hold it above your head and then move your back arm to direct the wing which way to go.
 

Kaser1

Tom Curren status
May 3, 2004
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Also I noticed you can't really fight the roll of the wing. Am I correct in this thought. To get the wing to roll over to one side or the other you can hold it above your head and then move your back arm to direct the wing which way to go.
Not too clear on what you mean. If you mean that it's rolling, like diving down into the water? If so, lift front arm.

If you're talking about transitioning on a jibe, then yes hold above your head as your board comes around. The wing will naturally follow the wind as you hold it level, as it'll turn on it's own in your hands as you switch grip
 

Kaser1

Tom Curren status
May 3, 2004
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Naish 6m vs Ozone 6m vs 4.2m F One Review:

Handles- Naish narrower more comfortable, Ozone wider
Weight- Naish lighter easier to handle
Windows- Naish has, Ozone doesn't. Not a deal breaker as I kinda used them but not a huge benefit. You actually had to position the wind to see through them.
Power- Same feel
Leash- Ozone is a bungee chord style, very long and hangs in your face, gets caught on your head etc.. hate the f'ing thing. Naish is a surfboard leash style, less obtrusive.

The Ozone is 2019, Naish is the new 2020 for reference.

Was out winging and my friend showed up with his Naish, took it out for about 10 minutes to get a feel.


Also, I flew my Ozone 6m with my GL140 foil just to see yesterday. Wind was mid/low 20's.

Crazy fast and didn't have to fight to keep foil down. Main drawback was the arm pump. If you've ever raced/ridden motocross you know what I'm talking about. Forearms were burning after a while holding on.

After about an hour on the 6m switched out to my F One 4.2 and put the GL180 on. I've used the 6m last 3 sessions and haven't touched my 4.2. The difference is now huge. The F One is sooo much lighter. The handles are so small and comfortable. The manuverability is crazy, you can just throw that thing around pretty quick. Also noticeable is the lack of power in the 4.2. Constant adjusting to wind, pumping, etc.. the 6m you just stand there and cruize. Glad i have both, the gap between the 2 is really nice. Don't think a 5m is necessary as there would be too much overlap.
.
 
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juandesooka

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Jan 12, 2009
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Breakthrough session....perfect wind makes all the difference. Prior session I struggled to stay upwind and make it work generally. Yesterday, all came so easy. I had 5 tacks in and out before even falling in the water, including turns on outside and inside. But best of all: first time riding waves, knee to thigh high sup foil waves, able to get in with the wind, then surf the wave with the wing neutral. Got into them either by doing a turn inside, then a turn on the wave to drop in (a lot going on), or by stalling to come off foil then powering up just as the wave was passing and dropping in (easier, but less speed to start).

Over the course of the session, no problem getting back to the peak. Able to ride toeside for extended periods and do flying gybes both directions. Holy crap, SO STOKED.

It is exactly how I envisioned when I bought this thing.....wind-assisted surf foiling, over and over no paddling.

Negatives: it was also fully kitesurfable on 10m...so gave up schwacking lips for the foil rides. Non-foilers consider that kooky as can be. Arms did get a bit tired. Hard on my elbows. Then the wind dropped 5kt and it was like Cinderella at 12:01am, the carriage turned back into a pumpkin, magic was over, had to pump my way back in downwind.
 
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Kaser1

Tom Curren status
May 3, 2004
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Breakthrough session....perfect wind makes all the difference. Prior session I struggled to stay upwind and make it work generally. Yesterday, all came so easy. I had 5 tacks in and out before even falling in the water, including turns on outside and inside. But best of all: first time riding waves, knee to thigh high sup foil waves, able to get in with the wind, then surf the wave with the wing neutral. Got into them either by doing a turn inside, then a turn on the wave to drop in (a lot going on), or by stalling to come off foil then powering up just as the wave was passing and dropping in (easier, but less speed to start).

Over the course of the session, no problem getting back to the peak. Able to ride toeside for extended periods and do flying gybes both directions. Holy crap, SO STOKED.

It is exactly how I envisioned when I bought this thing.....wind-assisted surf foiling, over and over no paddling.

Negatives: it was also fully kitesurfable on 10m...so gave up schwacking lips for the foil rides. Non-foilers consider that kooky as can be. Arms did get a bit tired. Hard on my elbows. Then the wind dropped 5kt and it was like Cinderella at 12:01am, the carriage turned back into a pumpkin, magic was over, had to pump my way back in downwind.
Yea it's going to change your perspective IMO. I went SUP surf foiling in the morning yesterday and was really kinda bored with it, so much paddling, pumping out, etc.. All I really was hoping for was some wind to come up .

Later in the day I found the low end of my 6m Ozone. I knew it was gonna be pretty light, so I threw on my biggest foil, my old Maliko 200 and the biggest tail I have.

Here's the wind history from yesterday for the time and area I went out from about 3:15- 4pm
Screenshot 2020-04-20 05.32.09.png

I've gone out in light wind before with my HA GL180 and swore never to do that again. The old school delta shape foils will pull you up outa the water waaaay easier with less pumping and stalling.

I could get it up and going in that wind, but I don't switch and just go toeside which is pretty tough in wind that light. Was hard to keep line into the beach. I made 2 passes and went in. It was getting late, there was 4-5' swell in the water and I didn't wanna get stuck out there.
 
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HarryLopez

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Jan 17, 2007
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Looking to possibly get a wing/foil setup. Living in Central OR, so would be using it in lakes, trips to coast, and maybe gorge trips eventually. What is the good beginner setup? Looking to probably use the wing on the river/lakes with regular standup boards/kayaks and skateboards, possibly snow fields with snowboard type thing.
 
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Kaser1

Tom Curren status
May 3, 2004
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Looking to possibly get a wing/foil setup. Living in Central OR, so would be using it in lakes, trips to coast, and maybe gorge trips eventually. What is the good beginner setup? Looking to probably use the wing on the river/lakes with regular standup boards/kayaks and skateboards, possibly snow fields with snowboard type thing.
Id HIGHLY recommend researching average wind speeds for where you plan on using it. Sounds automatic but I'd rather be over powered than under. But if you're not going to use it with a foil i guess it doesn't really matter too much. You can get a used first gen one for pretty cheap these days on Maui. I'd keep an eye on CL here and get it shipped IMO
 

Hdip

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Apr 23, 2005
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If you're in Oregon I bet your local or not to far away craigslist probably has good deals since they're really common in the gorge and people love upgrading gear.

I got a to good deal to pass up on a duotone. The duotone is one of the heavier first generation models as it has a boom which adds weight. They're all roughly the same though. Ozone Wasp and F-one seemed to be the preferred wings of the first generation that I can tell from reading online forums.

Naish S25 might be the first 2nd generation wing to show up and is getting really good reviews.
 
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Kaser1

Tom Curren status
May 3, 2004
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If you're in Oregon I bet your local or not to far away craigslist probably has good deals since they're really common in the gorge and people love upgrading gear.

I got a to good deal to pass up on a duotone. The duotone is one of the heavier first generation models as it has a boom which adds weight. They're all roughly the same though. Ozone Wasp and F-one seemed to be the preferred wings of the first generation that I can tell from reading online forums.

Naish S25 might be the first 2nd generation wing to show up and is getting really good reviews.
I tried the new Naish 6M and I really liked it. Lighter than my Ozone 6m 2019 model, windows were nice, and wrist leash more practical.
 

HarryLopez

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Jan 17, 2007
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Thanks for the tips. Read all of this thread. Still not sure how to use but love the water toys. Might try starting with standup foil using paddle then try to use wing. And use wing on lakes here, maybe rivers. And thanks for the wind reading tip, kited on Oahu for a while in the late 90's and can draw on that for wind knowledge.
 

Hdip

Michael Peterson status
Apr 23, 2005
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Why in the world is the guy on a powered onewheel and holding a wing? Sort of defeats the purpose no?
 

Hdip

Michael Peterson status
Apr 23, 2005
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Malibu, CA
Also, wind is more annoying than waves. I forgot about that from when I kite surfed. I keep seeing days that have potential, but it's not nuking and I know I won't even get out of the water, so my duotone 5m just sits in the bag. *sigh*