Gasoline Gasoline!

StuAzole

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Jan 22, 2016
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View attachment 138365

LA and a few other metro regions seeing gas prices going back up the last few weeks.

Yaay! Gas prices have dropped all the way back to..........March 2022, when Putin just invaded.

Never mind the price increase we watched in awe from the day Biden set foot in office (or elected even) after proclaiming war on the domestic (USA) fossil fuel industry, that helped start the whole inflationary process we're reaping from now.

Gas prices pretty much bottoming out, if not going back up in places.

View attachment 138366
Oil is sitting just above $80. In March 2022, it was as high as $129.

So it doesn't appear oil prices are driving gas prices.

What is?
 

StuAzole

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Jan 22, 2016
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The A/C will use the battery to run. I remember our Honda Insight had a Econ mode to help save more gas/battery, and the A/C automatically would shut off when you stopped longer than a few seconds. Not sure how strictly EV's are with managing non-motor electric use, but it all has to run on the battery and decent A/C is no slouch in using energy.
My car loses about 3-5% range off an 80% charge when I run the AC the entire time.

I'd guess I can sit in stand-still traffic with my AC on for way longer than an ICE car can run with its AC on.

You're right though - my AC does turn off after a few minutes of idle time, but only when I'm in park. Being at a dead stop for hours would get annoying.
 

Surfdog

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My car loses about 3-5% range off an 80% charge when I run the AC the entire time.

I'd guess I can sit in stand-still traffic with my AC on for way longer than an ICE car can run with its AC on.

You're right though - my AC does turn off after a few minutes of idle time, but only when I'm in park. Being at a dead stop for hours would get annoying.
If you get stuck in a SIG Alert for while on a freeway with no escape, might be an issue on a hot day. But I would probably turn off my ICE engine too, and just deal with it, or just run it off and on as needed. I'm sure they've figured out the most optimal way to handle higher energy usage on the lithium battery by now.
 

Surfdog

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Oil is sitting just above $80. In March 2022, it was as high as $129.

So it doesn't appear oil prices are driving gas prices.

What is?
Oil hasn't really dipped much below $83-$85 a barrel since early this month, and seems to be stuck in this range for the time being. Too many strains on oil supply from a wide assortment of global issues will keep it from dropping below $80 in the foreseeable future, it seems.

With the raid on the US SPR (Strategic Petrol Reserve) the last 6 months, and no replenishment to it in site (now at 40 year lows in quantities), USA gas prices are going back up, due to the uncertainty in domestic supplies in the months ahead.

Hopefully we don't have any new disruptions to domestic refining (like Katrina did in 2005 or other new international issues, forcing release of the SPR), or that emergency reserve could be drained even further and cause oil/gas prices to skyrocket again.

https://www.marketplace.org/2022/09/22/u-s-oil-reserve-tumbles-to-lowest-level-in-4-decades/
 

StuAzole

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Oil hasn't really dipped much below $83-$85 a barrel since early this month, and seems to be stuck in this range for the time being. Too many strains on oil supply from a wide assortment of global issues will keep it from dropping below $80 in the foreseeable future, it seems.

With the raid on the US SPR (Strategic Petrol Reserve) the last 6 months, and no replenishment to it in site (now at 40 year lows in quantities), USA gas prices are going back up, due to the uncertainty in domestic supplies in the months ahead.

Hopefully we don't have any new disruptions to domestic refining (like Katrina did in 2005 or other new international issues, forcing release of the SPR), or that emergency reserve could be drained even further and cause oil/gas prices to skyrocket again.

https://www.marketplace.org/2022/09/22/u-s-oil-reserve-tumbles-to-lowest-level-in-4-decades/
None of that explains why oil is down $50 a barrel from March yet gas is the same price. The domestic supply issues you reference are already directly incorporated into the world market oil price and don't have an impact on gas prices otherwise.

What has changed since March that would keep prices so high?
 

Surfdog

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Big, prolonged oil price momentum swings upward cause gas prices to go up (of course), and keep going up until oil prices swing down a LOT and stay down.

This prolonged price swing, starting since (ahem) Nov 2020, and had been sustained all thru 2021 into 2022. Longest continuous upward trend (with no real sustained pullback) in decades.

Then Ukraine invasion was the sour icing on that stale cake, and jacked prices further. Finally peaking after inflation reached 40 year highs due to that huge sustained 1-1/2 year ramp up, with recession and other economic negatives making people cut-back on consuming.

Now we have the worse inflation in 40 years and recession that will take many months, if not years to mend. Interest rates will stay higher than most have been accustomed to for many, many years. The days of cheap loans are gone for who knows how long.

But, one silver lining. Interest on cash in savings/money market/CD accounts will finally start to actually be more than a few pennies or dollar a month. Still far from the inflation rate percentages, but something, especially in this down to stagnant stock market lately.

People with limited or fixed incomes are going to feel the brunt of it for longer than we've seen in decades.

https://www.macrotrends.net/2501/crude-oil-vs-gasoline-prices-chart

Click on the 10 year trend to see clearer picture of recent trends.
 
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Surfdog

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None of that explains why oil is down $50 a barrel from March yet gas is the same price. The domestic supply issues you reference are already directly incorporated into the world market oil price and don't have an impact on gas prices otherwise.

What has changed since March that would keep prices so high?
The war on domestic sourced fossil fuels, and lack of alternate sources readily available.

EU is scrambling. China is hoarding. India is buying whatever is can from Russia. The 3rd world is gobbling up what it can to keep growing and taking more manufacturing from the West. We (USA) want to depend on solar and wind to save us from ourselves.

So much instability in the global markets, no one knows or feels comfortable in their current or future positions. So prices only come down so much, sadly. Oil companies/countries are not going to let oil prices drop too much, if they have any say about it.

Covid shutdowns slammed that industry, and they don't want it happening again, anytime soon, at least. It's one big global clusterfook of supply and demand strangling each other. With Green prospects not the instant gratification many thought it would be.
 

Surfdog

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Cracks me up that LA gas prices are going back up, while the rest the nation still sees prices going down a little more.

But it looks like we're bottoming out, nationwide, for the time being.:shrug:
 

StuAzole

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Jan 22, 2016
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The war on domestic sourced fossil fuels, and lack of alternate sources readily available.

EU is scrambling. China is hoarding. India is buying whatever is can from Russia. The 3rd world is gobbling up what it can to keep growing and taking more manufacturing from the West. We (USA) want to depend on solar and wind to save us from ourselves.

So much instability in the global markets, no one knows or feels comfortable in their current or future positions. So prices only come down so much, sadly. Oil companies/countries are not going to let oil prices drop too much, if they have any say about it.

Covid shutdowns slammed that industry, and they don't want it happening again, anytime soon, at least. It's one big global clusterfook of supply and demand strangling each other. With Green prospects not the instant gratification many thought it would be.
That’s all baked into the price of oil. Oil is $50 a barrel cheaper than it was in March. Gas is the same. What other inputs are there on the gasoline side and how are those Biden’s fault?
 

plasticbertrand

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Jan 12, 2009
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This is how dumb you are.

Electric motors don't idle you moron. When stationary, EVs use a negligent amount of power and like Stu said, even generate power when breaking.

I would say why don't you educate yourself on how EVs work but I know that if you did that, your bias confirmation would be shuttered.
What a tragedy that would be.
 
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hal9000

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Jan 30, 2016
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This is how dumb you are.

Electric motors don't idle you moron. When stationary, EVs use a negligent amount of power and like Stu said, even generate power when breaking.

I would say why don't you educate yourself on how EVs work but I know that if you did that, your bias confirmation would be shuttered.
What a tragedy that would be.
first they mock, then they imitate