Functional Training

[PRCD]

IT WILL WORK UNTIL IT DOESN’T

The title of today’s post comes as an answer I provided to a question that I ended up being pretty proud of. It was the typical “her...

mythicalstrength.blogspot.com

“It is imperative you get around other like-minded, hard-working people to fuel your fire. Do NOT allow “common folk” to bring you down to thinking of this type of training, this type of living, is strange. NO. We are normal. “They” are wrong.”
Proof is in the pudding.

Farm Boy Fitness | Going Back to Strength Training Basics

Farm boy style training should be creative and fun. Moving heavy objects and tough conditions can have a dramatic increase in an athlete’s confidence.

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"Novice", "Intermediate" and "Advanced" are measured by strength relative to bodyweight. At a 350 squat, he's transitioning from a novice to an intermediate which requires different programming.

 

[Chocki]

"Novice", "Intermediate" and "Advanced" are measured by strength relative to bodyweight. At a 350 squat, he's transitioning from a novice to an intermediate which requires different programming.

If all it took was weightlifting, wouldn’t all the best athletes be weight lifters?

 

[Chocki]

wow, that sounds burly! How long did you go? Apologies if you covered this elsewhere

pretty sure I read that Havoc trained at Rickson's place a while ago, though am also pretty sure I'd had a couple of IPAs and can't find that thread

edit: ah, the Martial Arts thread <facepalm>

It was rad. Felt very underground. Old school all the way. Nelson was the nicest and gnarliest dude I ever met. I was very lucky to be in the right place at the right time for once.

 

[PRCD]

If all it took was weightlifting, wouldn’t all the best athletes be weight lifters?

We're talking past one-another. I'm talking about novice, intermediate, and advanced levels of strength, not other sports.

 

[Chocki]

We're talking past one-another. I'm talking about novice, intermediate, and advanced levels of strength, not other sports.

Strength is worth having and training for sure but not to the exclusion of all the other athletic qualities. Some might even say it’s not the most important quality.

 

[Chocki]

"Novice", "Intermediate" and "Advanced" are measured by strength relative to bodyweight. At a 350 squat, he's transitioning from a novice to an intermediate which requires different programming.

At what point are you strong enough and it turns into jerking off in the weight room?
Ie what’s the actual goal of the program, aka “training for what”?

 

[PRCD]

At what point are you strong enough and it turns into jerking off in the weight room?
Ie what’s the actual goal of the program, aka “training for what”?

This probably has more to do with training time than anything else. I never got to an advanced level of strength, but going from novice to intermediate required more time simply because you're adding more warm-up and work sets.

I also imagine this is a trade-off with other athletic qualities. If your movement quality sucks, I imagine you'd prioritize that over strength.

The type of sport is also huge. Strength is really important for football because so much of your performance is relative to your opponent on the other side of the line of scrimmage.

I"m not a strength coach so IDK.

 

[Havoc]

rings ftw!

 

[Chocki]

This probably has more to do with training time than anything else. I never got to an advanced level of strength, but going from novice to intermediate required more time simply because you're adding more warm-up and work sets.

I also imagine this is a trade-off with other athletic qualities. If your movement quality sucks, I imagine you'd prioritize that over strength.

The type of sport is also huge. Strength is really important for football because so much of your performance is relative to your opponent on the other side of the line of scrimmage.

I"m not a strength coach so IDK.

Some might say your movement quality determines your strength. I got told all the time at BJJ how I was “stronger than I looked”.

Does the NFL Combine Have Any Predictive Value to NFL Success?

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bleacherreport.com

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08959285.2011.555218

 

[grapedrink]

The type of sport is also huge. Strength is really important for football because so much of your performance is relative to your opponent on the other side of the line of scrimmage.

I"m not a strength coach so IDK.

Seems that the front lines in football are mostly mass driven, which is why the coaches have no problem fattening them up. Linebackers and running backs are super strong and probably the most athletic, and may have similar lift numbers compared to linemen, although that's simply not enough to overcome the freakish mass.

That said, training for mass is dumb, unless you are in the NFL.

 

[Chocki]

Seems that the front lines in football are mostly mass driven, which is why the coaches have no problem fattening them up. Linebackers and running backs are super strong and probably the most athletic, and may have similar lift numbers compared to linemen, although that's simply not enough to overcome the freakish mass.

That said, training for mass is dumb, unless you are in the NFL.

Agree in general but. “Callousing” has benefits to the average Joe. Last year I did something stupid and fell on Mt bike. Onto nothing but rock. Shoulder took the brunt of it. Was a slow speed fall but still. Next day I was fine.

The Kettlebell Armor Complex: How, When, and Why It Should Be In Your Training | BarBend

The Kettlebell Armor Complex may be one of the most challenging and rewarding complexes to gain strength, burn bodyfat, and improve fitness. Here's why.

barbend.com

 

[PRCD]

rings ftw!

Seems that the front lines in football are mostly mass driven, which is why the coaches have no problem fattening them up. Linebackers and running backs are super strong and probably the most athletic, and may have similar lift numbers compared to linemen, although that's simply not enough to overcome the freakish mass.

That said, training for mass is dumb, unless you are in the NFL.

Training for mass is not dumb. Read "The FLight of the Windsock" in the OP. There's a reason cops and fighters try to add muscle. Strength is both relative and absolute. One of the easiest ways to add absolute strength is to gain size. Think about it: a 2x bodyweight DL is pretty achievable for any male. A 3x bodyweight deadlift is rare. SOlution? Gain muscular weight.

For lineman, the extra mass has to be pushed around by the guy on the other side of the line of scrimmage. If he's lighter, he's going to tire more quickly. This is also why laying on someone in a boxing match works, it tires the other guy out.

Some might say your movement quality determines your strength. I got told all the time at BJJ how I was “stronger than I looked”.

Does the NFL Combine Have Any Predictive Value to NFL Success?

Like its massive, whirling, threshing namesake, the 2013 NFL Scouting Combine is rolling into Indianapolis to separate the wheat from the chaff...

bleacherreport.com

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08959285.2011.555218

That study didn't compare strength levels of college football players to pros. Rippetoe cited a study that found that pro players were, on average, stronger than college players. The study you posted shows that the strength tests at the combine are sufficient to prove that an athlete has pro-level strength and speed, not how he will perform in a league where everyone has above average strength and speed.

 

[grapedrink]

Training for mass is not dumb. Read "The FLight of the Windsock" in the OP. There's a reason cops and fighters try to add muscle. Strength is both relative and absolute. One of the easiest ways to add absolute strength is to gain size.

I meant gaining mass, solely for the purpose of gaining mass, is dumb for average people. If you are a pro athlete, bouncer, cop etc where the extra weight and size is a tactical and psychological advantage then it certainly makes sense.

For most people, they will get the most optimal results in terms of health and body composition by training for strength, and some size will certainly come with that as a side benefit. I'd much rather have dense and well proportioned muscles than big puffy bodybuilder muscles that are accentuated in awkward places. Even an extra 10 pounds of muscle goes a long way, and most lifters will never gain more than 20 pounds in their lifetime.

Think about it: a 2x bodyweight DL is pretty achievable for any male. A 3x bodyweight deadlift is rare. SOlution? Gain muscular weight.

Sure, I agree that a 2x deadlift is a worthwhile goal. Although the point of diminishing returns will start to kicks in, and you will have a hard time getting towards a 2.5-3x deadlift without the benefits being offset by body fat and injury. While I agree that lifters are better off than most in regards to chronic pain and joint health, your margin of error gets exponentially thinner when you start pushing those numbers. Not to say that it can't be done, it's more that most lifters will not be successful at it.

For lineman, the extra mass has to be pushed around by the guy on the other side of the line of scrimmage. If he's lighter, he's going to tire more quickly. This is also why laying on someone in a boxing match works, it tires the other guy out.

Yes of course. Mass combined with speed and explosivity will always win at the line. Barry Sanders had 560 pound squat, 360 bench and was fast and agile as fook, but at 200 lbs when you have a 270+ lb lineman charging at you then it's no match in a direct collision.

That study didn't compare strength levels of college football players to pros. Rippetoe cited a study that found that pro players were, on average, stronger than college players. The study you posted shows that the strength tests at the combine are sufficient to prove that an athlete has pro-level strength and speed, not how he will perform in a league where everyone has above average strength and speed.

Sure, adult males in their mid-to-late 20s have had more time to gain muscle, strength, and hone their skills. If you are entering into that league at 22 years old, you will get steamrolled if your strength and speed numbers aren't competitive. No surprise there.

 

[Chocki]

I meant gaining mass, solely for the purpose of gaining mass, is dumb for average people. If you are a pro athlete, bouncer, cop etc where the extra weight and size is a tactical and psychological advantage then it certainly makes sense.

For most people, they will get the most optimal results in terms of health and body composition by training for strength, and some size will certainly come with that as a side benefit. I'd much rather have dense and well proportioned muscles than big puffy bodybuilder muscles that are accentuated in awkward places. Even an extra 10 pounds of muscle goes a long way, and most lifters will never gain more than 20 pounds in their lifetime.


Sure, I agree that a 2x deadlift is a worthwhile goal. Although the point of diminishing returns will start to kicks in, and you will have a hard time getting towards a 2.5-3x deadlift without the benefits being offset by body fat and injury. While I agree that lifters are better off than most in regards to chronic pain and joint health, your margin of error gets exponentially thinner when you start pushing those numbers. Not to say that it can't be done, it's more that most lifters will not be successful at it.


Yes of course. Mass combined with speed and explosivity will always win at the line. Barry Sanders had 560 pound squat, 360 bench and was fast and agile as fook, but at 200 lbs when you have a 270+ lb lineman charging at you then it's no match in a direct collision.


Sure, adult males in their mid-to-late 20s have had more time to gain muscle, strength, and hone their skills. If you are entering into that league at 22 years old, you will get steamrolled if your strength and speed numbers aren't competitive. No surprise there.

Couldn’t agree more

If you “needed” mass and strength, I would be able to recommend Dan John’s Armor Building complexes without hesitation. Based on my own personal experience with them at 40+yo working up to 2x20kg for time (20min). If you were in my age group, weight class and division, you would back down instantly say over you thinking I stole your parking spot at the beach. I’d take my shirt off and you’d be like this dude is gonna fuck me up no matter how much I can squat. He looks like he just got out of prison. Farmer’s walks only had the same effect. My Cholo neighbors said I looked like Yason Statham.

 

[Chocki]

Training for mass is not dumb. Read "The FLight of the Windsock" in the OP. There's a reason cops and fighters try to add muscle. Strength is both relative and absolute. One of the easiest ways to add absolute strength is to gain size. Think about it: a 2x bodyweight DL is pretty achievable for any male. A 3x bodyweight deadlift is rare. SOlution? Gain muscular weight.

For lineman, the extra mass has to be pushed around by the guy on the other side of the line of scrimmage. If he's lighter, he's going to tire more quickly. This is also why laying on someone in a boxing match works, it tires the other guy out.



That study didn't compare strength levels of college football players to pros. Rippetoe cited a study that found that pro players were, on average, stronger than college players. The study you posted shows that the strength tests at the combine are sufficient to prove that an athlete has pro-level strength and speed, not how he will perform in a league where everyone has above average strength and speed.

The study proves that the tests don’t mean sh!t. Your bench squat DL and everything else are ultimately irrelevant in determining your success as an athlete.

And you add mass wrong and your gonna lose more athletic qualities than you gain. Plenty of dudes have come in to a UFC fight with added mass, gassed out after failing to obtain a 1st round KO and then proceeded to get their asses kicked and ultimately KTFO b/c they ultimately were unable to defend themselves.

 

[PRCD]

The study proves that the tests don’t mean sh!t. Your bench squat DL and everything else are ultimately irrelevant in determining your success as an athlete.

It depends on the sport. For combat sports, I have not found this to be true. This is the reason we have weight classes.

And you add mass wrong and your gonna lose more athletic qualities than you gain. Plenty of dudes have come in to a UFC fight with added mass, gassed out after failing to obtain a 1st round KO and then proceeded to get their asses kicked and ultimately KTFO b/c they ultimately were unable to defend themselves.

Could you give some examples?

 

[Chocki]

It depends on the sport. For combat sports, I have not found this to be true. This is the reason we have weight classes.


Could you give some examples?

Too many to list. And you know I’m talking or you should about within a weight class. Like I said my personal experience got me twice to where if you were in mine, etc I was gonna make you my bitch. Dominate you. I’d put money on it. A lot. And I’d be right enough that I’d do it every time.

You want to see functional training in mma action for real? Zercher squats too bitches.

“We do lots of sled pull work with UFC fighter Matt Brown – extra weight on the shoulders, up to a half-mile, sometimes farther. This builds incredible strength in the glutes and hips, which is where punching power originates. It also builds cardiovascular and muscular endurance at the same time.

The only barbell lifts he does are basically Zercher squats or sumo deadlifts. Sometimes we'll do straddle-leg good mornings (one leg out in front) which simulates single and double-leg takedowns.

I have Matt carry a barrel – wrestlers have to get their hips to the opponent, and the only way to carry a 55 gallon barrel is to jam the hips up into it.

Matt will also carry a 100-pound med ball in a wrestler's clinch for interval training. So he'll go 100 feet down, 100 feet back, perform a series of jumps, and then repeat.

But one of the best exercises is the belt squat. Matt uses 365 pounds strapped around his waist and he'll walk with it on for five minute rounds – forward, backward, and to the side.

This builds lateral power and has made him incredibly strong. In his last fight he broke his opponent's nose, jaw, and cheekbone – and we don't do anything for arms other than one-arm dumbbell pressing.”

Westside Wisdom

The godfather of powerlifting talks about Max Effort, Dynamic Effort, explosiveness, box squats, and more!

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Watched this one live b/c I’ve always been a MB fan and I wanted to see Brazilian Bieber get his ass kicked. Silva left the cage on a fucking stretcher lol. Was never the same again afterwards either. I’m pretty sure Matt Brown stole his soul. Proof enough for me.

 

[Chocki]

You want to earn the right to say I don’t need to do any functional/farm boy training?
I did an internship at the Athletic Functional Performance Center in LA. With coach Peter Rouse. Brick sh!t house of a foreigner, compulsive liar and grifter. But he was also an EXTREMELY KNOWLEDGEABLE S&C dude. Fully legit IMO. Still have my notes. But I wasn’t there just to take notes. I had questions prepared or came up with them on the fly every fucking session. Farmer’s walks day. Me. Hey coach what’s the “gold standard”. Him. 1/2 BW in each hand using the FW Bars for 25-? Yards. I forget but I can look it up. Either way you’d have to be a beast to do it. Any takers? Since everyone’s program here is so good, etc I’m sure it will be easy for you all right? And no disrespect b/c he’s a fucking black belt in bjj but I’d bet against him. I’m sorry but I would. I like to make money.

I’m totally joining the CF gym for the toys and while I thought I was totally gonna do Max’s UA program by the book literally. I decided today I’d have to be insane not too concentrate on FWs and sled pushes. I had too much all around success with the FWs not to, and why not add a push to go along with a pull. I know Dan John would agree and I bet Max would too with some conditions that mainly had to do with movement quality and mobility lol.

But what do I know, it’s not like I was able to pass the insanely hard CSCS test without any background in it other than my study prep and obtain the fully legit cert where I could at least walk into the S&C facility of any NFL team etc and say all the CSCSs raise your hand and it would be me and literally almost everyone but the players. Oh that’s right VM said it’s worthless.

Later Bitches. That’s a wrap on Chocki.