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Functional Training

PRCD

PRCD

Tom Curren status
Feb 25, 2020
12,732
8,726
113
Discussion with Bret Contreras and Brad Schoenfeld:
bretcontreras.com

The B & B Connection: Episode 8 - Functional Training - Bret Contreras

Hi Fitness Folks! Welcome to the eighth episode of the B & B (Bret & Brad) Connection. In this episode, my colleague Brad Schoenfeld and I discuss functional training. In case...
bretcontreras.com bretcontreras.com

Brad's 2010 ASCM article on the topic, referenced in the interview:

There seem to be several ditches you can fall into. The first is believing that machines, cable exercises, and single leg exercises are worthless because they're not barbell squats. How do you watch a sprinter and say they shouldn't be lunging or split-squatting?
1600444109435.png

How you you watch someone swing a tennis racket and say rotational exercises are worthless?


How do you say this tubing exercise is worthless for an offensive lineman?

The second ditch seems to be demonstrated by these functional gurus who simply aren't strong or buff. This ditch is described perfectly here:
 
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Chocki

Chocki

Phil Edwards status
Feb 18, 2007
6,488
7,012
113
Planet Earth
PRCD said:
Discussion with Bret Contreras and Brad Schoenfeld:
bretcontreras.com

The B & B Connection: Episode 8 - Functional Training - Bret Contreras

Hi Fitness Folks! Welcome to the eighth episode of the B & B (Bret & Brad) Connection. In this episode, my colleague Brad Schoenfeld and I discuss functional training. In case...
bretcontreras.com bretcontreras.com

Brad's 2010 ASCM article on the topic, referenced in the interview:

There seem to be several ditches you can fall into. The first is believing that machines, cable exercises, and single leg exercises are worthless because they're not barbell squats. How do you watch a sprinter and say they shouldn't be lunging or split-squatting?
View attachment 97951

How you you watch someone swing a tennis racket and say rotational exercises are worthless?


How do you say this tubing exercise is worthless for an offensive lineman?

The second ditch seems to be demonstrated by these functional gurus who simply aren't strong or buff. This ditch is described perfectly here:
Click to expand...
Always liked Contreras. Glutes = power.
Dude comes to me and says I grapple and I want to be able to rag doll people. Me: eventually we are gonna end up using sandbags once we’ve addressed any possible deficiencies. You want to be good at throwing heavy sh!t around (people), at some point IMO you’re gonna want to/have to train by throwing heavy sh!t around (sandbags).
 
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Havoc

Havoc

Rabbitt Bartholomew status
May 23, 2016
7,762
12,346
113
in da hood next to paradise
Chocki said:
Always liked Contreras. Glutes = power.
Dude comes to me and says I grapple and I want to be able to rag doll people. Me: eventually we are gonna end up using sandbags once we’ve addressed any possible deficiencies. You want to be good at throwing heavy sh!t around (people), at some point IMO you’re gonna want to/have to train by throwing heavy sh!t around (sandbags).
Click to expand...
as stated before one of our coaches plateaued in bjj and started the compound lifts. fast forward couple years and he has a 405+ deadlift and black belt under the mendes bros.
 
Chocki

Chocki

Phil Edwards status
Feb 18, 2007
6,488
7,012
113
Planet Earth
Havoc said:
as stated before one of our coaches plateaued in bjj and started the compound lifts. fast forward couple years and he has a 405+ deadlift and black belt under the mendes bros.
Click to expand...
And to take it to the next level I’d (Dan John) would suggest some form of loaded carries and I’d argue for the inclusion of weighted throws or any other movement uniquely pertinent to the sport aka specificity. You can plateau in weight training too. At this point how will any improvement in his DL etc help him as an athlete?
 
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Reactions: Havoc
PRCD

PRCD

Tom Curren status
Feb 25, 2020
12,732
8,726
113
Havoc said:
as stated before one of our coaches plateaued in bjj and started the compound lifts. fast forward couple years and he has a 405+ deadlift and black belt under the mendes bros.
Click to expand...
Would you say that his black belt is the result of better technique or simply being stronger and able to beat guys with strength or a combination of both? I found I could easily manhandle all the brown belts at this judo place I trained at even though I had about 6 weeks of training. But I wanted to learn technique so I had to dial back the strength.

We had a friend who became an LA County sherriff. They start you off in the jail where you have to manhandle uncooperative prisoners. He was a weakling, so we got him stronger in the big three. Within about two months he could easily move prisoners and even hurt them with just his grip if he wanted. His grappling skills magically improved with more strength. Amazing!
 
Chocki

Chocki

Phil Edwards status
Feb 18, 2007
6,488
7,012
113
Planet Earth
Havoc said:
u cannot get a black belt in bjj just on strength alone. but it obvs complimented his training
Click to expand...
No doubt. No argument here either. But real training involves cycles (not roids lol) and there’s nothing that says after say an 8 week farm boy program you can’t go back to your regular training? Or use it as a supplement? You can’t just DL forever and expect the same results?

sandbag training grappling - Google Search

www.google.com
 
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Havoc

Havoc

Rabbitt Bartholomew status
May 23, 2016
7,762
12,346
113
in da hood next to paradise
Chocki said:
No doubt. No argument here either. But real training involves cycles (not roids lol) and there’s nothing that says after say an 8 week farm boy program you can’t go back to your regular training? Or use it as a supplement? You can’t just DL forever and expect the same results?

sandbag training grappling - Google Search

www.google.com
Click to expand...

he didnt just dl. just usingbthat as an ex. his squatbwas 350.
 
Chocki

Chocki

Phil Edwards status
Feb 18, 2007
6,488
7,012
113
Planet Earth
Havoc said:
he didnt just dl. just usingbthat as an ex. his squatbwas 350.
Click to expand...
And how long will that program continue to work? Forever?

“The loaded carry does more to expand athletic qualities than any other single thing I've attempted in my career as a coach and athlete. And I do not say that lightly.”
Dan John
 
Chocki

Chocki

Phil Edwards status
Feb 18, 2007
6,488
7,012
113
Planet Earth
Havoc said:
they switch to int or adv programming once they reach that level.
Click to expand...
mythicalstrength.blogspot.com

IT WILL WORK UNTIL IT DOESN’T

The title of today’s post comes as an answer I provided to a question that I ended up being pretty proud of. It was the typical “her...
mythicalstrength.blogspot.com mythicalstrength.blogspot.com

“It is imperative you get around other like-minded, hard-working people to fuel your fire. Do NOT allow “common folk” to bring you down to thinking of this type of training, this type of living, is strange. NO. We are normal. “They” are wrong.”
Proof is in the pudding.
www.nestacertified.com

Farm Boy Fitness | Going Back to Strength Training Basics

Farm boy style training should be creative and fun. Moving heavy objects and tough conditions can have a dramatic increase in an athlete’s confidence.
www.nestacertified.com www.nestacertified.com
 
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Chocki

Chocki

Phil Edwards status
Feb 18, 2007
6,488
7,012
113
Planet Earth
Havoc said:
they switch to int or adv programming once they reach that level.
Click to expand...
Honestly IDGAF but here it is in as plain English as possible. I trained BJJ (before anyone lol) and Judo enough to at least know the demands of the sport of grappling. So let’s say I was a Black Belt just like your bro. Same size and age, etc. I’d be training a lot of farm boy and using other tools to address any deficits as needed. And if you gave me the choice between competing against your dog or someone who else who trained like me? I’d pick him every time if I really wanted to try and ensure a win. I’d pick the farm boy if I wanted a challenge or felt I potentially needed a dose of humility.

But whatever do the same program forever with slight modifications and experience what economists refer to as diminishing returns. IDGAF
 
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Chocki

Chocki

Phil Edwards status
Feb 18, 2007
6,488
7,012
113
Planet Earth
Where did this “program” even come from? If I wanted a badass grappling specific S&C program I’d look to see what the most badass grapplers were doing for S&C.

What I really learned getting my CSCS didn’t have jack sh!t to do with program design, that’s the easy part. By the book.

Instead what it was really about was understanding the demands of any particular sport, assessing the needs of an individual athlete, and providing sport specific training.

I’d ask your friend two questions.
How’d you do last tournament and why do you think you only made it that far?
What’s your S&C weakness, that one thing you really would not want your opponent to know about you?
 
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Chocki

Chocki

Phil Edwards status
Feb 18, 2007
6,488
7,012
113
Planet Earth
the janitor said:
sorry, I phrased that poorly: where, who, when? I'm genuinely curious, not looking for a gotcha
Click to expand...
I was totally being a dick for sure but you gave me an ez target lol. 1993 immediately following UFC 1, Nelson Monteiro’s garage then newly opened academy until the Sheik took him to AD.
 
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T

the janitor

Tom Curren status
Mar 28, 2003
12,340
1,737
113
north of the bridge
wow, that sounds burly! How long did you go? Apologies if you covered this elsewhere

pretty sure I read that Havoc trained at Rickson's place a while ago, though am also pretty sure I'd had a couple of IPAs and can't find that thread

edit: ah, the Martial Arts thread <facepalm>
 
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