FREE MARKUT Ifall et al? Good/Necessary read -Higher Education Is Morally and Financially Bankrupt

MJOJunkie

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Another fraud uncovererd. Republicrats & Demobfuscators are NOT looking out for you.


http://www.oftwominds.com/blogmar16/bankrupt-higher-education3-16.html


Higher Education Is Morally and Financially Bankrupt

March 31, 2016

A system that piles debt on students in exchange for a marginal or even zero-return on their investment is morally and financially bankrupt.

Every once in a while you run across an insider's narrative of a corrupt, morally bankrupt sector that absolutely nails the sector's terminal rot. Here is that nails-it narrative for higher education: Pass, Fail: An inside look at the retail scam known as the modern university.

Here are excerpts of the article, which was published in Canada but is equally applicable to higher education in the U.S.:

A university degree, after all, is a credential crucial for economic success. At least, that’s what we’re told. But as with all such credentials—those sought for the ends they promise rather than the knowledge they represent—the trick is to get them cheaply, quickly, and with as little effort as possible. My students’ disaffection is the real face of this ambition.

I teach mostly bored youth who find themselves doing something they neither value nor desire—and, in some cases, are simply not equipped for—in order to achieve an outcome they are repeatedly warned is essential to their survival. What a dreadful trap.

One in particular matches perfectly with the type of change I’ve observed on my watch: the eradication of content from the classroom.

All efforts to create the illusion of academic content are acceptable so long as they are entertaining, and successful participation requires no real effort and no real accountability.

Remove your professor hat for a moment and students will speak frankly. They will tell you that they don’t read because they don’t have to. They can get an A without ever opening a book.

But don’t worry—you won’t go bust because of this failure, not in the modern university. So long as your class is popular and fun, you’ll be favoured by the administration and probably receive a teaching award. This, even though your students will leave your class in worse condition than they entered it, because you will have pandered to their basest inclinations while leaving their real intellectual and moral needs unmet.

There is no clearer example of administrators’ contempt for faculty. But there is also no clearer example of their contempt for students.

As money is siphoned from academic programs through attrition, it is channelled into a host of middle-management positions.

From 1979 to 2014, central administration and staff ballooned by three and a half times, while the size of the faculty merely doubled.

Parents, students, and governments keep supplying them with capital, assuming there will be a genuine return on investment. But since the institution no longer produces anything, no such return is forthcoming.

Spending on the student services sector in Canadian universities increased an incredible six-fold between 1979 and 2014.

The student services cabal is no longer there to support faculty in their work of educating students “but to compete with them to define the student experience.”

Insiders are quiet after they read this, because they know it's true.

The financial burden created by the higher education cartel is immense and expanding:

[img:center]http://www.oftwominds.com/photos2015/student-loans10-15.png[/img]

[img:center]http://www.oftwominds.com/photos2015/student-loans-fed10-15.png[/img]

[img:center]http://www.oftwominds.com/photos2015/higher-education8-15.png[/img]

A system that piles debt on students in exchange for a marginal or even zero-return on their investment is morally and financially bankrupt.

We can do better and must do better, which is the subject of my book The Nearly Free University and the Emerging Economy.
 

MJOJunkie

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MJOJunkie said:
Another fraud uncovererd. Republicrats & Demobfuscators are NOT looking out for you.



[img:center]http://www.oftwominds.com/photos2015/student-loans-fed10-15.png[/img]


A system that piles debt on students in exchange for a marginal or even zero-return on their investment is morally and financially bankrupt.

Not the type of hockey stick being used in the NHL. Nothing good about this one :crazy3:
 

the janitor

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MJOJunkie said:
A system that piles debt on students in exchange for a marginal or even zero-return on their investment is morally and financially bankrupt.
agree, especially since the Fed gov't has been chucking easy loan money at the thing. But I think the parents and kids are culpable as well, no :shrug:
 

GDaddy

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If the U.S. government wanted to do something about education in America they could start by assembling curricula in at least some core subjects and making it available online - for free. Charge at cost for taking tests and administrative costs, same as you would for a driver's license or a business license.

At all levels of education, from preschool to the 4yr degree. Then if the schools can sell content that's not available or if the schools can sell their prestige in the market then that's great.

The economic value of goods or services is a function of supply and demand. Education isn't inherently economically valuable in the market except to the extent of its scarcity.

If everyone has a HS diploma its economic value in the market is pretty low. Taken to its logical conclusion the same can eventually also be true for the 4yr degrees and the postgraduate degrees.

That's why inflating the costs of those programs - done in part by loading them with requirements for non-relevant filler courses - is counterproductive to selling them on the basis that their benefits exceed their costs.

I think people have plenty of motivation to learn skills that are necessary for their occupations. It's the time and energy they are required to devote to courses they don't think will do anything for them that stands as the big barrier for many people.
 

Ifallalot

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the janitor said:
MJOJunkie said:
A system that piles debt on students in exchange for a marginal or even zero-return on their investment is morally and financially bankrupt.
agree, especially since the Fed gov't has been chucking easy loan money at the thing. But I think the parents and kids are culpable as well, no :shrug:
We have generations being taught that college is the only way to success while anything manual/tradesman/etc. is failure.
 

MJOJunkie

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the janitor said:
MJOJunkie said:
A system that piles debt on students in exchange for a marginal or even zero-return on their investment is morally and financially bankrupt.
agree, especially since the Fed gov't has been chucking easy loan money at the thing. But I think the parents and kids are culpable as well, no :shrug:
Yes, Agreed.

Personal responsibility paramount and #1.

Cannot see any reason to send my kids to these fraudulent institutions of fookery.

Public College Administrators making $300K annually with opulent pension benefits.

The poop is going to hit the fan in the coming years and it will not be pretty.

I'm thinking riots and violence.
 

Kento

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I wonder if the faculty for the garbage majors (philosophy, sociology, ___ studies, etc.) will find themselves downsized once people wake up to the fact that it might be a good idea to study a subject such as business or engineering where you have a decent chance of return on your investment.

Will we see more Cal Techs/MITs and less Kenyons/Wellesleys in the near future?

Ifallalot makes a good point about trade schools. As a society, we need machinists, mechanics, carpenters, etc.
 

MJOJunkie

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Kento,

You may be the last of the highly intelligent and smartly educated blokes to get out alive :shrug:

Ifall doesn't count because he has hipster bloodlines :dancing: :grin2:
 

Kento

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MJOJunkie said:
Kento,

You may be the last of the highly intelligent and smartly educated blokes to get out alive :shrug:

Ifall doesn't count because he has hipster bloodlines :dancing: :grin2:
Thanks! :cheers:

Even better, I transferred from environmental engineering to geology. Far less work, more field trips, and more beer, including semi-sanctioned beer hour every Friday. Oh and we got to play with power tools and dynamite on occasion for geophysics.

And I do the same sh*t with similar pay for work as I would have if stayed in original field of study.

I'd say that worked out well. :beer:

Unfortunately, the women in respective departments were similarly beastly.
 

VonMeister

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Student loans was designed by democrats to bloat and fund university admins and payrolls at the expense of students.

From Mike Rowe

If I were to hazard a guess, I’d say that most candidates don’t focus on the necessity of trade schools, because most voters would prefer their kids get a four-year degree from a University. If a majority of voters valued skilled labor as much as they value a sheepskin, I suspect Donald would be campaigning in a hardhat, Hillary would be stumping in steel-toed pumps, and Bernie would be handing out free welding torches.

Truth is, a lot of well-intended parents still believe that kids who attend trade schools do so because they’re not “college material.” That’s an absurd stereotype with no basis in reality, but for the millions of parents who want something “better” for their kids, it’s reason enough to discourage a career in the trades. Unfortunately, this reasoning is not only faulty, it’s destroying economies large and small.

Consider the number of college graduates today, who can’t find work in their chosen field. Hundreds of thousands of highly educated twenty-somethings are either unemployed or getting paid a pittance to do something totally unrelated to the education they borrowed a fortune to acquire. Collectively, they hold 1.3 trillion dollars of debt, and no real training for the jobs that actually exist. Now, consider the countries widening skills gap - hundreds of thousands of good jobs gone begging because no one wants to learn a useful trade. It’s madness. “College For All” might sound good on the campaign trail, but in real life, it’s a dangerous platitude that reinforces the ridiculous notion that college is for people who use their brains, and trade schools are for people who use their hands. As if the two can not be combined.

Last month, I was invited to comment on the annual list of America’s “Top Jobs” and “Top Schools,” (as determined by one of America’s “Top Magazines.”) I passed. Not just because I’m suspicious of lists - I passed because nowhere on the list of “top colleges” was a single trade school mentioned. Not a one. Not surprisingly, none of the careers my foundation supports made the list of “top jobs.”

This is a classic example of how society quietly discourages careers in the skilled trades. We don’t publish lists of careers called “Jobs We Don’t Want Our Kids To Do.” Instead, we publish “America’s Top Jobs,” and leave off dozens of critical professions. Likewise, no one makes a list called “Schools To Attend If You’re Not That Bright.” Instead, we announce the “Top Colleges,” and omit schools that train people for a whole category of critical vocations. It’s a brilliant way to reinforce the existing stereotype, promote a one-size-fits-all approach to education, and guarantee a workforce that’s dangerously out of balance. But the scariest thing about these lists, is not their obvious bias - it’s their degree of influence on otherwise sensible people.

Would a sensible person recommend The Godfather to someone who hates violence - just because it won Best Picture? Would a sensible person recommend a Steakhouse to a vegetarian, just because Yelp gives it 5-stars? Would a sensible person recommend The Ritz to a traveler on a budget, just because Trip Adviser says it’s the best hotel in the city? Of course not. But every year, lots of otherwise sensible people recommend a four-year college to kids who would be far better served by Trade School. They defer to someone else’s idea of what a Top School is - regardless of suitability and cost.

I’m not an economist Jim, but I’m pretty sure this is how college got so expensive in the first place. We start by exaggerating it’s importance. Then we call it a “right.” That creates demand and guarantees supply. Then we free up billions of dollars, and encourage millions of teenagers to borrow whatever it takes to pay the freight. The pressure on these kids is enormous - from their parents, their guidance counselors, and their peers. So they sign on the dotted line, and that’s that. Is it any wonder the cost of a degree has risen faster than the cost of food, energy, healthcare, and even real-estate? Is it any wonder some politicians want to fix the problem by forgiving the debt altogether and making college free for everyone?

It’s hard to look at what’s happening with education and not be reminded of the housing collapse. As I recall, that all started when politicians campaigned on the idea that home ownership was a fundamental part of the American Dream, and therefor a “right” that all Americans should enjoy. Then, those same politicians allowed banks to offer adjustable rate mortgages with no money down to people with no credit and no collateral. Then, they allowed Wall Street to roll out mortgage-backed securities. Ultimately, thousands of Americans were given the “right” to borrow billions of dollars and move into homes that were wildly overpriced.

There’s plenty of blame to go around, and I’m happy to condemn the crooks in DC and Wall Street who drove the bus over the cliff. But the real-estate bubble wasn’t inflated by corporate greed alone - it was inflated with the mistaken belief that living in a house is somehow “better” than living in the same sized apartment; that paying down a mortgage is somehow “smarter” than paying rent. I’m afraid the same kind of thinking that pushed people into over-priced homes they can’t afford has pushed people into over-priced degrees that don’t lead to jobs. And to those arguing that a college education should be a “right,” I’ve got to ask, if that’s really the case, what’s next? Physical fitness?

Seriously, why not? A healthy body is no less important than a healthy mind. So why aren’t the candidates talking about free gym memberships? When they do, I can tell you what happens next - we’ll see a list of “Top Gyms” that provide the very best equipment and the very best trainers. Screw the YMCA - if you really care about getting fit, you’ll enroll at the best gym possible, and if the cost is prohibitive, no sweat - you’ll have access to a “Fitness Loan!” Then, when the price of gym memberships go through the roof, and people start defaulting on their payments, the feds can bail everyone out. Because if physical fitness is a “right,” shouldn't it also be free?

I had a drinks with a buddy last week who wants free college for everyone, and ran this exact metaphor past him. He agreed that fitness was important, but told me the government doesn’t subsidize gym memberships because physical fitness doesn’t require access to a gym. He pointed out that anyone can get in shape at home doing sit-ups, lunges, and jumping jacks.

I agreed with my friend, but suggested that access to knowledge is not much different. Today, anybody with an Internet connection can access 99% of all the accumulated knowledge on the planet. You Tube alone offers thousands of college courses and lectures for free.

My friend told me it was unfair to compare a course at Princeton to the same course on You Tube. I told him I wasn’t just comparing courses - I was comparing cost. New stadiums, student unions, and beautiful campuses are all very nice, but they don’t make you smarter, or more employable; they just make your education that much more expensive. My friend then suggested we change the subject - which I took as a victory, and we retired to the pool table - where I suffered multiple defeats and picked up the tab.

Point is, there’s an excellent case to be made for attending a four-year school - if you can afford it. But if you can’t, it makes no sense to assume a mortgage-sized debt in exchange for a general base of knowledge that doesn’t lead to a job. This stubborn idea that a four-year degree is the best path for the most people is ruining lives and wrecking our country. And it’s not going to stop if we don’t confront the stigmas and stereotypes surrounding the skilled trades, and dispel them for the nonsense they are.

Whatever your politics, this is not the time for our candidates to be promoting one type of education over another. The truth about education is this - there can be no hope of success without one. Period. But right now, the majority of available jobs do NOT require a four-year degree - they require training - the exact kind of training that parents, guidance counselors, and presidential candidates should be encouraging at every turn.
 

GromsDad

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My oldest is a sophomore in high school and a couple months back I hit a website where you could look up the costs for tuition room and board of any college. Out of curiosity I looked up my own school where I graduated in 1992. I found that the cost at the same school to get the same 4-year degree I have is now 5X more than what it cost when I went through. So I ask you this.......what have household incomes done since the early 90s? They sure as hell haven't increased 5X. My parents put 3 of us through college with Zero debt. No student loans and no loans on their part either. They wrote the check. Neither of my parents went to college. My father a carpenter and my mother made and did alterations on wedding dresses. The college system is so out of whack today it isn't even funny.
My college sure has a lot of money to build fancy new buildings and pay $30,000 speaking fees to liberal hacks like Van Jones. Then they probably wonder why alum like me hang up on them when they telemarket for the annual donation drive.
 

Kento

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I donate a hundred bucks to my high school every year but not college. GromsDad, at your school spent money on speaking fees. Mine spent their sh*t on Sarkisian. Screw that. Might as well donate to a wino. Well, guess it's kind of the same thing.
 

GWS

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I don't even want to tell you what it cost to put my daughter through @ Kento's alma mater.

:bricks:
 

the janitor

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GromsDad said:
My oldest is a sophomore in high school and a couple months back I hit a website where you could look up the costs for tuition room and board of any college. Out of curiosity I looked up my own school where I graduated in 1992. I found that the cost at the same school to get the same 4-year degree I have is now 5X more than what it cost when I went through. So I ask you this.......what have household incomes done since the early 90s? They sure as hell haven't increased 5X.
Mine is a freshman so the college equation is looming for us too. I've got to think the cost of college is being driven up in large part by the increasing amount of federal gov't loan money being thrown at kids/parents. And like Sharkbiscuit pointed out even in bankruptcy those things will stick to your side. I'll go find some graph with those figures later, right now I have to go do my day shift on a cartel farming plot (it's organic!) so we can afford books.

One other inflation metric that baffles me is grades. If you read through the UC system's averages it would now appear that your kid needs to have a 4.2 GPA, a non profit foundation that brings clean water to the favelas in Rio AND have cured a major disease in order to get accepted.
 

VonMeister

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It's probably better for parents and kids to let them do their core classes at a Cal State, then transfer to a UC or other school. I started taking limited status classes at USC while I was going to a JUCO, with the goal of getting a professor to write me a letter of recommendation for the following school year. Getting the "You're In" letter was a dream come true but at about half the cost of what it would have been.
 

Surfdog

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ifallalot said:
the janitor said:
MJOJunkie said:
A system that piles debt on students in exchange for a marginal or even zero-return on their investment is morally and financially bankrupt.
agree, especially since the Fed gov't has been chucking easy loan money at the thing. But I think the parents and kids are culpable as well, no :shrug:
We have generations being taught that college is the only way to success while anything manual/tradesman/etc. is failure.
+1000

Just read an article that USC is now 2nd place in tuition costs annually. Just under some hoity-toity college back east. $50K annually for tuition and other costs, NOT counting room and board.

How in the hell do you recoup from that, even with just a 4 yr degree, let alone an advanced one?

If it's in the liberal arts degrees, you might as well do bong hits lit with those $100 bills spent (literally) every school day instead. And you'd still be ahead of the game.

College education is becoming a racket. Can't blame Repubs on this crap.
 

Mike_Jones

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College education is valuable because it costs money and requires lots of work. When the government starts eliminating the cost of bachelors' degrees then the demand for bachelor-degreed people has to fall. In the end corporations will bestow high salaries to whatever level of education demands PERSONAL sacrifice, in both time and money. Whatever level the government funds to, that will be a low-demand and low-pay credential.
 

Autoprax

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I agree that college shouldn't be free.

Affordable.

Thy admins have been raiding the cupboards and lining their own nests.


But when the tax man comes to the door, ooh the house looks like a rummage sale.