for Front footed Surfers

Apr 6, 2015
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Why would you want to break that habit?

The thing most bigger guys and front foot heavy surfers struggle with is learning to shift their weight to their back foot to turn.
The habit of driving off my front foot was a problem on certain boards - notably, a Maurice Cole ProTow (that board would just STOP, literally, if I put too much weight on the front, had to be surfed almost entirely off the rear foot), a Roberts WD (odd because it was supposed to be a front-foot friendly board), a Lost Bean Bag, and to a lesser extent, my Lost Sabo Taj (still very hit and miss on that board).

But other boards have responded well, or at least not poorly, to driving off the front foot - the ones I mentioned earlier, along with the V3 Rocket, Lost Lazy Toy (of course), and most of my old CI boards, MBB, MX and Flyer. As I recall, the MBM needed to be ridden more off the back foot though...

In general, "high performance" shapes demand more precision with the rear foot and tend to bog with too much front foot pressure (in my experience). Hybrids and boards which carry more foam to the nose are more forgiving of that, not surprisingly, and have a larger sweet spot.

I keep thinking I'll train myself to become a more "back-footed" surfer, but I never make much headway so I've given up on boards that require that. The difference is very obvious to me underfoot..
 

ChaseTMP

Billy Hamilton status
Apr 6, 2014
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sjlist, I'm in the same camp, but I don't think I'll be able to unlearn 37 years of habit. Surfing short beach break waves 95% of the time has/had trained me to get up and get as much speed as possible to hit the the first (and a lot of times the only) section. I look like the majority of the top tier guys when they're setting up for an air driving off their front foot. I have no problem transferring my weight to my back foot when coming off the bottom or setting up a cut back. I'm definitely more even-weighted on my backhand when generating speed.

OTR boards I've liked with my style: Channel Islands' NB2 and Fever, Chilli Nevada, Haydenshapes' Psychedelic Germ. Ones I didn't gel with: JS Air17X, Chilli Churro Round and Peri Peri, Stretch Skate, and Haydenshapes' Love Buzz.
 
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casa_mugrienta

Duke status
Apr 13, 2008
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sjlist, I'm in the same camp, but I don't think I'll be able to unlearn 37 years of habit.
I'm in the same boat but wanting to learn to surf off my front foot after surfing off my back for decades.

Not sure if it's possible. Anyone done it?

Low entry, high tail rocker boards have so many benefits when getting in early counts. I can ride 'em no problem if all I'm doing is barrel hunting. But in waves where the focus is turning and generating speed it can feel like I'm pulling the e-brake once up and riding.

The problem with backfooted boards is getting in early enough when it REALLY counts. I'm sure if you're something close to a pro level paddler you can overcome the way a moderate entry rocker lower tail rocker board seems to push water at all the wrong times. But for an average joe like me it's incredibly frustrating.

I've been told most people can switch between either rocker style no problem but not the case for me.

Maybe I need to try another front footed board and humble myself looking like a kook learning to surf it?
 
Apr 6, 2015
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Maybe I need to try another front footed board and humble myself looking like a kook learning to surf it?
I think the Sabo Taj is probably a board that would blend these characteristics well for someone who tends to surf off the back foot, but wants the benefit of somewhat lower entry rocker. That's what it's supposed to do, so you would probably click with it pretty well. There are some good deals on CL if you look around. It's a sick board in the right conditions, had my best turns of the year on it. I just completely kook out on it the rest of the time :ROFLMAO:

I think I just under-sized mine a bit. It would work really well for me in "bro dims," I think. Or, I can just focus on losing some more weight, ha, which is probably an even better solution...

Anyway, worth looking into. Also, as I said, the Ghost is amazing. Super easy paddler, lots of drive off the front foot, turns like a mutha...
 
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daave

Gerry Lopez status
Dec 28, 2002
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Saw this recently on Surfline
These vids are pretty interesting. Lower entry boards were specifically mentioned in the previous one. He kind of talked about the same stuff casa is talking about.

I can ride both kinds of boards, but I find the sweet spot is noticeably smaller on the high entry/low tail rocker boards. I think you have to stay back on them, so the curved entry stays out and you use the flat part to get your glide etc. low entry boards you can scoot up and get in even easier and change feet positioning if needed.
 

casa_mugrienta

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Apr 13, 2008
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I can ride both kinds of boards, but I find the sweet spot is noticeably smaller on the high entry/low tail rocker boards. I think you have to stay back on them, so the curved entry stays out and you use the flat part to get your glide etc.
You are correct.

BTW, no idea what Nick Carroll is talking about with that back foot movement stuff. Personally the only time my back foot moves is up or down the tail and the only time it's being angled in an awkward manner when I'm in tube mode.
 

tedshred5

Michael Peterson status
Aug 5, 2015
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Nice, when I was last at his San Clemente shop there were some interesting versions of the Townsend design In there. It’s really easy to go in there with one board in mind and order something completely different when you see some of the prototypes and variations he has there. And then there’s paint jobs and lams to discuss ! :LOL:

It’s been great to have the Insanity as a baseline that I bring in every time and then We talk about it and the follow on boards are up and down the scale based on it. When I get my Bullet it will be my fourth board from him and definitely not the last. -Come on corona check!!!
yo @Badger_Badger you get that Bullet? How’s it go?
 

casa_mugrienta

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Apr 13, 2008
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Just watched Nick's "Angling the Takeoff" episode on Surfline.

He states "most pro-level riders prefer low-entry rocker boards".

I can think of multiple pro-level riders who don't. The first that come to mind are Andy Irons, Felipe Toledo, and Joel Parkinson.

However, I do think low entry rocker boards are easier to market because many people do not have the proper technique to paddle into waves with a moderate entry rocker board in crowded or more critical situations. So the low entry rocker is a no brainer for a majority of surfers if you're trying to sell surfboards.
 

Havoc

Phil Edwards status
May 23, 2016
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in da hood next to paradise
Just watched Nick's "Angling the Takeoff" episode on Surfline.

He states "most pro-level riders prefer low-entry rocker boards".

I can think of multiple pro-level riders who don't. The first that come to mind are Andy Irons, Felipe Toledo, and Joel Parkinson.

However, I do think low entry rocker boards are easier to market because many people do not have the proper technique to paddle into waves with a moderate entry rocker board in crowded or more critical situations. So the low entry rocker is a no brainer for a majority of surfers if you're trying to sell surfboards.

ya low entry rocker is such a crutch man look at kooks like dane reynolds
 
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ChaseTMP

Billy Hamilton status
Apr 6, 2014
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Trying to figure out (surf well on) my relatively new XTR Pyzel Astro Pop has/had been doing my head in and got me analyzing even more about how I drive of my front foot.

The board has been marketed/praised as an "all abilities" design and as someone who (or at least used to) surfs at an advanced level, I was surprised that I was having trouble clicking with it. For me, during the first four sessions I always felt like there was too much lift in the tail frontside where I'm definitely weighted more front foot heavy than on my backhand.

I tried my usual large fin sets: KA, AM (Aircore), FT which all felt the similar, where I could do the normal stuff and probably looked fine doing it, but I wasn't digging the tail-lift sensation. I tried the board as a 2+1 with my AM set and that was more of the same.

I've now ridden the board twice as a quad with the FT fronts and Reactor quad rears and I'm finally feeling like the lifting sensation is a non-issue, but I think it's more of me figuring out how to center my weight more with this particular design than the move from three to four fins.

For whatever reason, this board has a much different get up and go compared to my Fever and NB2 which I've been on for over a year. The waves have gone to sh*t this week locally, but I'm pretty sure I'll be able to go back to riding the Pyzel as thruster and won't have the same issue now that my muscle memory from the CI's is waning and I'm starting to figure out how to make the Astro Pop go.
 
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stringcheese

Miki Dora status
Jun 21, 2017
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Just watched Nick's "Angling the Takeoff" episode on Surfline.

He states "most pro-level riders prefer low-entry rocker boards".

I can think of multiple pro-level riders who don't. The first that come to mind are Andy Irons, Felipe Toledo, and Joel Parkinson.

However, I do think low entry rocker boards are easier to market because many people do not have the proper technique to paddle into waves with a moderate entry rocker board in crowded or more critical situations. So the low entry rocker is a no brainer for a majority of surfers if you're trying to sell surfboards.
Californians prefer low entry rocker boards. Hawaiians and Australians get to ride good waves. :LOL:
 

ChaseTMP

Billy Hamilton status
Apr 6, 2014
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I rode one of Brad Gerlach's boards with this bottom back in the day and for me, it's more about generating speed than initiating a turn. I didn't love the board, but that was probably due an equal part the board's super flat deck and boxy rails and not just the bottom contours.
 

casa_mugrienta

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Apr 13, 2008
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ya low entry rocker is such a crutch man look at kooks like dane reynolds
That's not what I said.

I'm saying one of the main reasons they're popular is because they're what people are more accustomed to and one of the reasons is they're way easier to sell. For a person's first standard shortboard it's gonna be easier for them to catch waves instantly on something with low entry.

Hand them a moderate entry board after that and they're gonna say "This thing sucks, it pushes water."
 
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Sharkbiscuit

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However, I do think low entry rocker boards are easier to market because many people do not have the proper technique to paddle into waves with a moderate entry rocker board in crowded or more critical situations. So the low entry rocker is a no brainer for a majority of surfers if you're trying to sell surfboards.
I'd rather have a moderate+ entry rocker in more critical situations in general

The habit of driving off my front foot was a problem on certain boards - a Lost Bean Bag
I don't feel like there's any point to trying to pump the Bean Bag. The Monkfish, RV, and BeanBag are the three boards I've owned since the 80s that didn't have concave, and I couldn't pump any of them to save my life. The BeanBag is the only one that didn't get sold pretty quickly, and I love that thing.

Personally I think the BeanBag absolutely has to be up-volumed. I could see an HPSB-volume one not pushing back enough on the back foot, and kind of compelling you to weight more forward, causing issues. I have a terrible ugly style and probably jittery as all hell due to slop beachbreak; would assume I tend to be front-footed, but I feel like I can just relax and do turns on that board in the correct surf.

Low entry, high tail rocker boards have so many benefits when getting in early counts. I can ride 'em no problem if all I'm doing is barrel hunting. But in waves where the focus is turning and generating speed it can feel like I'm pulling the e-brake once up and riding.

The problem with backfooted boards is getting in early enough when it REALLY counts. I'm sure if you're something close to a pro level paddler you can overcome the way a moderate entry rocker lower tail rocker board seems to push water at all the wrong times. But for an average joe like me it's incredibly frustrating.

I've been told most people can switch between either rocker style no problem but not the case for me.
Next time, ask if "most people" can switch at will in all conditions. I mean I switch between rocker style no problem if the wave face is switching. No tail/nose flip in mush, yes please in steep drops.

Have you ever ridden a Sub Driver?