Foil Froth Fever

Clamsmasher

Billy Hamilton status
Apr 22, 2013
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I took it out, but i think the mounting angles were off by a fair bit so I didn’t really get it out of the water. I want to open up the front mount so it’s shimmable too, but haven’t had time...to busy winging to get any projects done haha
 
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juandesooka

OTF status
Jan 12, 2009
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My canard experimentation ended with the realization that the angles really matter and there were too many variables for my little brain to work through. So I bought a zeeko spitfire set up used/cheap. At one point a buddy measure up the angles, I can try to find if you like....it was surprisingly not at all flat. I have only used it kiting, though supposedly the XXLW will work in surf. Would be fun to try winging it now that I think of it.
 

ghostshaper

Miki Dora status
Jan 22, 2005
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I'm going to look into winging my local outer reef before I throw down for an efoil rig. Still need to dial in the canard setup behind the boat.
 

juandesooka

OTF status
Jan 12, 2009
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winging is pretty rad. Lots of argument in kiting world about if it's a lamer version of kiting, etc, but for people who already sup/surf foil, it is clearly an extension of that. Once you're on the wave and the wing is luffed, it feels just like regular wave foiling -- the difference is you have a tool that gets you in super early and no paddling. Your personal jetski tow-in. Add that into the mix, and there's not many off-days any more, something to chase in almost all conditions.

The wing offers some advantages over kiting too: faster rigging and can use it in areas where wind is too marginal to kite. My home break is not great for kiting, have tried many times over the years but given up ... yesterday I had a wing session there at lunch hour....45 minutes on the water and back at work without anyone being the wiser. I lucked into two waves that started forming way out there, long fade left, then the right all the way across, 500m at least. There is only a 5 second section of it that had any white water, near the end, barely even surf foilable. Now, this is an open swell, not a breaking wave, so someone watching from the beach could probably barely tell it was a wave .... but you sure can feel it. All in all, felt like stealing candy.

The negatives of winging: in light wind it's a lot of work, I think kite foiling still more fun sub 12kt (unless there's good surf). The boards are bigger, more swing weight, not as easy or fun for whipping around, but this is evolving quick. Much like everyone was windsurfing 10' slalom boards and then suddenly everyone switched to small boards once water starting became a thing....I suspect winging in surf may follow the same lead. And just like wavesailing, this will not be for everyone (experts only) and not every spot (needs a lot of wind). But that'll be the high end ... using my surf foil board or perhaps even smaller.
 

ghostshaper

Miki Dora status
Jan 22, 2005
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winging is pretty rad. Lots of argument in kiting world about if it's a lamer version of kiting, etc, but for people who already sup/surf foil, it is clearly an extension of that. Once you're on the wave and the wing is luffed, it feels just like regular wave foiling -- the difference is you have a tool that gets you in super early and no paddling. Your personal jetski tow-in. Add that into the mix, and there's not many off-days any more, something to chase in almost all conditions.

The wing offers some advantages over kiting too: faster rigging and can use it in areas where wind is too marginal to kite. My home break is not great for kiting, have tried many times over the years but given up ... yesterday I had a wing session there at lunch hour....45 minutes on the water and back at work without anyone being the wiser. I lucked into two waves that started forming way out there, long fade left, then the right all the way across, 500m at least. There is only a 5 second section of it that had any white water, near the end, barely even surf foilable. Now, this is an open swell, not a breaking wave, so someone watching from the beach could probably barely tell it was a wave .... but you sure can feel it. All in all, felt like stealing candy.

The negatives of winging: in light wind it's a lot of work, I think kite foiling still more fun sub 12kt (unless there's good surf). The boards are bigger, more swing weight, not as easy or fun for whipping around, but this is evolving quick. Much like everyone was windsurfing 10' slalom boards and then suddenly everyone switched to small boards once water starting became a thing....I suspect winging in surf may follow the same lead. And just like wavesailing, this will not be for everyone (experts only) and not every spot (needs a lot of wind). But that'll be the high end ... using my surf foil board or perhaps even smaller.
Thanks for that write up. There isn't much wind down here, but I'm hoping I can get by w/ a big wing and a board big enough to do standing starts. Eventually, I'll hide just enough volume in a smaller board to do a standing start.
 

juandesooka

OTF status
Jan 12, 2009
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Thanks for that write up. There isn't much wind down here, but I'm hoping I can get by w/ a big wing and a board big enough to do standing starts. Eventually, I'll hide just enough volume in a smaller board to do a standing start.
Light wing flat water lawn mowing....doable and fun enough but a fair bit of work. However, light wind and waves....you can wait in take off position for the set, then just before wave you start pumping the wing, the wave gives you life, you get up and in, then flag the wing and just foil surf. So as long as there's waves, the wing can bring some s**ts and giggles.

Standing start....are you meaning SUP volumes, so you can stand there with the wing? That'll work as long as you're ok with a lot of board, like sup foiling. The standard middle ground in winging is knee start on a board halfway between a sup and surf foil. You kneel with wing overhead, get some wind in it, then once you get some forward momentum you can get to your feet (on a board that would be too tippy to stand up on otherwise). [and if I misunderstood you and what I said is "obviously", then apologies in advance]
 
Mar 20, 2019
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Yup I'm fully addicted to winging now. 4'9 x 24.5" board, 71L. I can barely stand on it when not moving, but knee starts are fairly easy. The other day I had a 2.5hr session, logged 23 miles on foil. And that was mostly riding waves. Find a wave, cruise onto it, luff the wing and surf the wave, pull off the wave get the wing back up and zoom back up the point and find the next wave. Soo much fun, until you crash on a wave, haha.
 

Clamsmasher

Billy Hamilton status
Apr 22, 2013
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Yup I'm fully addicted to winging now. 4'9 x 24.5" board, 71L. I can barely stand on it when not moving, but knee starts are fairly easy. The other day I had a 2.5hr session, logged 23 miles on foil. And that was mostly riding waves. Find a wave, cruise onto it, luff the wing and surf the wave, pull off the wave get the wing back up and zoom back up the point and find the next wave. Soo much fun, until you crash on a wave, haha.
What do you weigh? I'm having a dark night of the soul, contemplating cutting my rig right down....but it goes so well....
 
Mar 20, 2019
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What do you weigh? I'm having a dark night of the soul, contemplating cutting my rig right down....but it goes so well....
75kg

I've done knee starts on longer/narrower boards in the 50-60L range. Hoping to try my 40L prone board and my 25L 3'10 I use for towing soon. Plenty of wind this weekend. We'll see how it goes!
 
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Hdip

Michael Peterson status
Apr 23, 2005
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Your weight in KG +10 for an intermediate board.

To make it easy on yourself you need to be able to get going while kneeling on the board. I think that will still sink when doing that unless the wind is nuking.
 

juandesooka

OTF status
Jan 12, 2009
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Long time no post!

Season transition up here in PNW. Generally little to no surf in Juan de Fuca strait for May-Oct. Definitely no foil waves. But dependable daily thermal winds, so wing foiling has been the go for a few months. It fades in August/Sept, we have a little doldrum period of no-wind and no-waves until the Aleutian Juice begins. Time to break out the tow rope for wake practice.

I had a week in Tofino, first time surf foiling beach breaks ... wow, big helpings of humble pie. A few moments of brilliance surrounded by a whole lot of kooking out. Sure made me appreciate the river/reef/points I normally get to ride. Most of the successes were in chipping in off the rock ... so not really beach break take-offs.

Anyways, curious to hear how it's going elsewhere. A lot less chatter on here lately, myself included. People just doing other stuff while it's flat? Or has the stoke declined as the honeymoon period waned? Sad to say, I am feeling like maybe a little of both. Though when I finally got a decent wave on my trip, it brought it all back about how stoking it is to be flying on a good one. There will be plenty o' fun in the season coming up. Stoke rekindling!

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Aug 28, 2020
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I am as stoked as ever, but I've only been foiling for 14+ months and winging for 8. Summer is the doldrums for wind in the northeast US so we're doing well to wing one day a week (even then it may be marginal). Living 1.5 hours inland means I spend a lot of time behind boats, which is a blast in its own right and is great for perfecting pump techniques and carving small waves. I finally broke through prone foiling and am super stoked to be foiling on the ocean on a small board without a wing in my hands (I am a better foiler empty-handed). I do love the power of the wing though and had a great session a couple of days ago connecting jibes and surfing wind swell while a bunch of longboarders sat inside hoping for mushy crumbs.

New equipment is also quite exciting. The speed and glide capability of new high aspect foils is amazing, and paying my dues to ride smaller volume boards is excellent. I have just a couple of sessions on a 75L wing board that is such a joy to ride compared to the 115L board I started with. It is tough to take a couple steps backward to progress but it's all about time in the water, or preferably ON the water.

Foiling has been life changing for me. I started wake foiling at age 62 and winging at 63. I feel like I've been reborn after moving to the mountains in my 30s and only surfing every few years since then. Now I am stoked to be back in the ocean, work hard to improve and get competent in all phases of the sport. For the most part I feel more fit now that I did 15 years ago (retirement helps; it's hard work if you do it right).
 

juandesooka

OTF status
Jan 12, 2009
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I have had some time to think this week, as I have my first significant foil surf injury. First ride on my fancy new KD stab ... got a little cocky on a late drop, went over the falls, got the tomahawk chop just above my ear. Yes the stab is sharp right out of the box ... 8 stitches (through my wetsuit hood), big swollen head, luckily the CT scan showed no skull or brain damage. So, could have been way worse. And also could have been better, had I been wearing any one of the 4 (FOUR) helmets in my van.

Anyways, now have safety in mind again. Committed to wearing a helmet again, even if look nerdy. And taking a file to my ginsu stab. Hoping to be back in the water this weekend, for the next big swell.
 

Hdip

Michael Peterson status
Apr 23, 2005
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The dislike was for the injury. I'm wearing a helmet now. Gath with visor. I figure if I'm going to wear something on my head might as well have something for sun protection on my face too.
 
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juandesooka

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Jan 12, 2009
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I have gath with visor too, I find at times the visor comes in handy -- though more often for vicious hail storms than sunshine where I live. Only half joking. Though I find it does kind of distort visuals while riding, sunglasses work better. I wear the gath sup and wing foil but find it is too heavy to hold up for prone paddling for hours on end. It also has potential for whiplash injuries in high speed wipeouts, bucked effect.

So I have a soft helmet and a bump cap insert, which are both lower profile. And both of which would have saved me, if I'd been wearing them. The bump cap means I can't take my hood off, which is annoying ... but a dumb reason in retrospect on a cold fall evening when I wouldn't have taken my hood off anyway! Bla bla bla, just mad at myself.
 
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I have had some time to think this week, as I have my first significant foil surf injury. First ride on my fancy new KD stab ... got a little cocky on a late drop, went over the falls, got the tomahawk chop just above my ear. Yes the stab is sharp right out of the box ... 8 stitches (through my wetsuit hood), big swollen head, luckily the CT scan showed no skull or brain damage. So, could have been way worse. And also could have been better, had I been wearing any one of the 4 (FOUR) helmets in my van.

Anyways, now have safety in mind again. Committed to wearing a helmet again, even if look nerdy. And taking a file to my ginsu stab. Hoping to be back in the water this weekend, for the next big swell.
Wow JDS I just had the same thing happen to me a couple months ago - so scary! I too blew a takeoff and took a wing to the rib, my wetsuit provided little protection. My wing tips are all a bit rounder now for safety! owee.JPG
 

juandesooka

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Jan 12, 2009
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Bad luck continues....yesterday I got run over by a chick on a longboard, went right over me in white water. I was wearing a helmet, but didn't hit head. The fin stopped on my thigh, cut a 4" gash in wetsuit. Luckily no cut on leg. Hurt like crazy, but able to walk it off, kept surfing for another half hour. Then an hour later, seriously painful, big swelling, went to get xray, not broken, but a big hematoma. I am now on crutches, off the water for a week or so I reckon.

So, with all the hype about us on our dangerous water guillotines, who really is the biggest danger out there? SUPs and longboards and kayaks!

This is the first time I've been hit by a board in 25 years surfing this highly crowded spot. Thinking about it more today, the reason I got hit is because of where I was sitting....poaching the white water, take off inside/deeper behind the kooks, hang back and then take over the wave when they fall off or run out of steam. Gal who ran me over could surf more or less and as long as she had kept riding down the line she would have passed right by me -- but she blew the take off and then unexpectedly turned right toward me belly riding. So, I can blame dangerous longboard kooks, but I was sitting in the danger zone, and realistically I would never sit there on a surfboard, I'd have been safely outside. More to be aware of out there. And my normal MO: do not ever be inside kooks, if anything be 50 feet further up the line, to give some room for (my) safety. [PS and their safety too....if my foil had got turned upward in the wave, this could have been uglier]
 
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