Nobody wants cops to disengage.
Stop being a drama queen.
People want for cops not to be reckless assholes with poor judgement, who shoot first and ask questions later.
i.e. people like you should not be cops.
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Floriduhs finest
- Thread starter $kully
- Start date
Stop being a drama queen.
People want for cops not to be reckless assholes with poor judgement, who shoot first and ask questions later.
i.e. people like you should not be cops.
I'm not ignoring it, but I am taking the events in context.
The cops didn't deliberately use the other drivers as human shields, if that's what you're going for. They were taking cover behind the vehicles. A couple of them were circling around to get a better angle into the cab.
Its unclear who started shooting first or who saw what while they were shooting. That will all come out. But there is a point of reasonable expectations. We can't expect to see the same results out of cops who get a total of 4 hours of range time a year that we are getting from Delta shooters who train as a coordinated team and specialize in hostage rescue and are spending 500 hours a year on the range. The 4/hr a year crew will be making a lot more mistakes. There's no way around that short of putting more resources into their shooting.
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expecting him to answer direct questions that he knows will show his argument is shallow and onesided -
So we are making progress.
You think cops screw up because they only spend 4 hours a year training at the range, because that's all they get paid to do.
As part of my realtors license, I have continuing education that I do on my own time that far exceeds 4 hours a year.
So that means a realtor takes their job more seriously, and puts more personal effort into their profession.
We agree that cops should get off their butts to be more professional.
Good to see you coming around.
I answered the question. They were maneuvering for cover as per their training. They could not let these guys get away.
And the correct answer to the question in the training scenario that I posted is that the cop shoots the crook even though there are bystanders nearby. I know this because I got that answer incorrect when I took that test. i withheld due to liability concerns, which was the incorrect answer per the training.
And the reason that answer was incorrect per the training is because of the potential for the crook to put other people into the same situation only worse if they get away.
This was a nightmare situation and it had a nightmare result. Even so, it actually could have turned out worse.
And the correct answer to the question in the training scenario that I posted is that the cop shoots the crook even though there are bystanders nearby. I know this because I got that answer incorrect when I took that test. i withheld due to liability concerns, which was the incorrect answer per the training.
And the reason that answer was incorrect per the training is because of the potential for the crook to put other people into the same situation only worse if they get away.
This was a nightmare situation and it had a nightmare result. Even so, it actually could have turned out worse.
I was on the range 2-3 times a month, but that wasn't a job requirement, just the same as working out on an agility course or arrest control techniques isn't a job requirement.
And as far as what society expects of cops the training criteria - established at the top - comprises that expectation. If we want better then we need to provide better.
I'm a commercial appraiser in my day job, so the technical aspects of that dwarf what the brokers do. (but not what the builders do) I taught CE courses for over 15 years, so I know what's typical for the practitioners in both industries. I highly doubt the extra time you spent on your CE would - if you were a cop - have been sufficient to produce a markedly different outcome in this situation.
Don't forget, the comparison of military to police training is unreasonable because the troops spend ALL of their time, 10-12 hours a day, on training when they're in garrison. Even when they're on deployment, they only need to be switched on when they're out on an operation or on patrol. There's a big difference between maintaining that vigilant posture for relatively brief periods during the workday for a deployment that lasts maybe as long as a year at a time vs maintaining the posture all day, every day for years on end with a vacation here and there.
It's just not the same.
Considering the assessment and reaction time required to bring down a criminal without collateral damage, I am always blown away when you bring up how little training and practice police departments require. For what they are doing, shouldn't every cop be trained to at least sharpshooter (if not expert) skill for both pistol and rifle and have to regularly qualify at those levels to maintain their job? Edit: I see you addressed that point above. Below still stands.
I would bet if there were more trained snipers in police departments, you would have far less collateral damage. Considering the amount of military equipment so many departments procure, I think it would be cheaper and far more effective to provide actual training than use said equipment as a crutch. It's also one hell of a deterrent for criminals if they know their brain will be turned into a pink cloud or, better yet, gutshot depending on the severity of the crime being committed.
If it were me, I'd want to cops to spend one entire day per month in training (covering all aspects of the job, not just shooting) and an entire month of intermediate training after they complete their probationary period and have accrued some experience.
But the public safety budgets of these various jurisdictions already represent their largest expense by far, so that's where lie the practical constraints, particularly when establishing minimum training standards on a national level.
Meanwhile, firefighters work out while they're on the clock. Which I support as being necessary for what they do.
But the public safety budgets of these various jurisdictions already represent their largest expense by far, so that's where lie the practical constraints, particularly when establishing minimum training standards on a national level.
Meanwhile, firefighters work out while they're on the clock. Which I support as being necessary for what they do.
More importantly, they need to be thought basic human skills, like de-escalation and using deadly force last, not first or even second.
Most of these incidents are caused by the gung ho attitude and power drunk idiots who don't have basic skills in human interaction.
Also see: GDaddy
You are living proof that talk therapy doesn't work. You demonstrate on a daily basis that it's impossible to reason with a hormone-drive adolescent personality when their blood is up. You demonstrate on a daily basis that some people only respond to their feelz.
Oh the irony coming from someone living in their me-mine fear-based world.
Cops need to speak in soothing tones, maybe light some candles...then the. Criminals will be willing to talk things out & give themselves up without incident
At the end of the day, the cops did hide behind civilians. They put occupied cars between them and the shooter, so the car and occupants would catch the bullet, not them.
The cops also shot at anything that did, and did not move. Never shoot if you aren't aiming at your target, especially in a hostage situation.
Adequate training or not, they fucked up. If ones job is that serious, they should be training, whether they get paid for it or not.
They failed
The cops also shot at anything that did, and did not move. Never shoot if you aren't aiming at your target, especially in a hostage situation.
Adequate training or not, they fucked up. If ones job is that serious, they should be training, whether they get paid for it or not.
They failed
I knew replacing Training Day with the Dead Zone as an instructional video would have repercussions:
Have some imagination:
I think some durian-scented candles combined with Barry Manilow at 120 decibels would get anyone to acquiesce.
I don't think there are reports yet stating who starting shooting first, nor how on target the cops' shots were, so I'm not sure how you are reaching your conclusions.
Putting a car between you and 4 potentially armed suspects that just robbed a jewelry store and carjacked a UPS truck (for stealth) seems like a basic move to me. Are you proposing that they should just run straight up to the open doors of the truck?
So you'd be cool if you and your kids were in that car, caught in the crossfire for no good reason?
Trying to gage the level of detachment.
Thanks.
Also, do you think there was absolutely no other way to solve this situation?