Explain Trump and the Big Crazy

Sharkbiscuit

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After Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan took power, the rest of the package soon followed: massive tax cuts for the rich, the crushing of trade unions, deregulation, privatisation, outsourcing and competition in public services.
Every single one of these, "the package" as the Guardian calls it, Hillary Clinton and the Democrats oppose, and the neoconservatives pursued with vigor.

Every single one. There's not one policy there that HRC or the Democrats aren't vociferously against. Not one.
 

Woke AF

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Southern Tip, Norcal
Every single one of these, "the package" as the Guardian calls it, Hillary Clinton and the Democrats oppose, and the neoconservatives pursued with vigor.

Every single one. There's not one policy there that HRC or the Democrats aren't vociferously against. Not one.
You are narrowly framing a complex issue that has many players:shameonyou:

NAFTA much?

And how about HRC's high heeled boot she used liberally when she was sec of state? Honduras coup much? She talked of her support for liberal ideas but legislation enacted, any?
 
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Sharkbiscuit

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You are narrowly framing a complex issue that has many players:shameonyou:

NAFTA much?

And how about HRC's high heeled boot she used liberally when she was sec of state? Honduras coup much? She talked of her support for liberal ideas but legislation enacted, any?
I'm sorry I operated within the frame of the Guardian article YOU posted.

Honduras doesn't have jack doody to do with the specific things the Guardian listed. That's the Guardian's framing, not my own.

What has Bernie Sanders passed? Gas?

After Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan took power, the rest of the package soon followed: massive tax cuts for the rich, the crushing of trade unions, deregulation, privatisation, outsourcing and competition in public services.
 
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StuAzole

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Then you lied about voting both ways? Guns, investments, voting record. What else have you been dishonest about?

Define old.
No, not true that you have any idea what a neo-liberal is.
 
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Woke AF

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I'm sorry I operated within the frame of the Guardian article YOU posted.

Honduras doesn't have jack doody to do with the specific things the Guardian listed. That's the Guardian's framing, not my own.

What has Bernie Sanders passed? Gas?
The guardians subject is neoliberalism. You framed your response on Hilburger.

Bernie is independent and hrc is rank and file democrat.

Honduras is just another example of neoliberalism at work.
 

StuAzole

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You are narrowly framing a complex issue that has many players:shameonyou:

NAFTA much?

And how about HRC's high heeled boot she used liberally when she was sec of state? Honduras coup much? She talked of her support for liberal ideas but legislation enacted, any?
What was Hillary doing when NAFTA passed?
The guardians subject is neoliberalism. You framed your response on Hilburger.

Bernie is independent and hrc is rank and file democrat.

Honduras is just another example of neoliberalism at work.
There's a lot to unpack with Honduras. Expand, please.
 

Sharkbiscuit

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The guardians subject is neoliberalism. You framed your response on Hilburger.

Bernie is independent and hrc is rank and file democrat.

Honduras is just another example of neoliberalism at work.
Yeah, then the Guardian went through and rattled off quite a few neoliberal policies. I quoted them.
Someone else, I'll give you a hint; his name is ElOgro, brought up Hilburger. Not me.

You've got one bi-partisan Free Trade agreement, and one coup in Honduras.

Somehow HRC has no signature legislative achievements, and that's a problem, but Bernie, who has renamed even fewer post offices than HRC, isn't held to that standard.

After Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan took power, the rest of the package soon followed: massive tax cuts for the rich, the crushing of trade unions, deregulation, privatisation, outsourcing and competition in public services.
Let's start with massive tax cuts for the rich.

Does HRC support that, or does she not?
 

StuAzole

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Then spell it out for me. In your own words.

While you’re at it, define old.
LOL, I did above. I gave you a whole bunch of neoliberal policy, none of which I agree with.

And I guess old is living near a tropical surf spot but not surfing.
 

Woke AF

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Yeah, then the Guardian went through and rattled off quite a few neoliberal policies. I quoted them.
Someone else, I'll give you a hint; his name is ElOgro, brought up Hilburger. Not me.

You've got one bi-partisan Free Trade agreement, and one coup in Honduras.

Somehow HRC has no signature legislative achievements, and that's a problem, but Bernie, who has renamed even fewer post offices than HRC, isn't held to that standard.



Let's start with massive tax cuts for the rich.

Does HRC support that, or does she not?
Who cares what she supports

she dead hag stumbling now.
 

StuAzole

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She was pretending to suck off slick willy.

no interest in unpacking anything Central America. Explain why what we have done there is not in support of neoliberalism .
What have we done there?

But I'm fine ending this discussion. My only interest here is finding out why El Old Man thinks I'm a neo-liberal. So far, all I've seen is "you voted for dems and republicans in the past" lol.
 
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Sharkbiscuit

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Who cares what she supports

she dead hag stumbling now.
ElOgro said Trump happened because HRC/Democrats are neoliberal. I think that's demonstrably off base (that HRC/Democrats are neoliberal).

I agree that she's a dead hag stumbling now. Another point of disagreement I have with ElOgro's assertion. They're not crying fraud about an election Trump lost to Hillary. The GOP actively wants Trump. They had 17 other eminently qualified Representatives, Senators, and Governors to choose from in 2016, from Jeb Bush to Rand Paul. Basically the entire spectrum.

Trump isn't an accident, or benefactor of circumstance, or anything else. He's the best standard-bearer for the GOP voter, and it's not close.
 
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crustBrother

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This isn't trolling -- I'm vehemently apolitical, but this Trump-crazy sh!t has me fascinated. It's not just racists and 1%ers - respectable people are embracing the QAnon, conspiracy theory, Deep State nuttiness and Trump is our messiah, here to deliver us from political purgatory to social rapture. He, by all accounts, seems a despicable human being, but is lauded as our savior. He's the one good guy billionaire, and he's here to make things right.

What's the attraction?
Instead of attraction, I'd call it an instinct to align with one's tribe and the norms that creates the tribe's identity.

For hundreds of thousands of years, the naked ape died if separated from the tribe. That lesson is ingrained in the deepest parts of human psychology. People will do almost anything to conform with their tribe.

Lots of examples of this on the left and right.
 

ElOgro

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Instead of attraction, I'd call it an instinct to align with one's tribe and the norms that creates the tribe's identity.

For hundreds of thousands of years, the naked ape died if separated from the tribe. That lesson is ingrained in the deepest parts of human psychology. People will do almost anything to conform with their tribe.

Lots of examples of this on the left and right.
I’m not that ambitious.
 

Woke AF

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ElOgro said Trump happened because HRC/Democrats are neoliberal. I think that's demonstrably off base (that HRC/Democrats are neoliberal).

I agree that she's a dead hag stumbling now. Another point of disagreement I have with ElOgro's assertion. They're not crying fraud about an election Trump lost to Hillary. The GOP actively wants Trump. They had 17 other eminently qualified Representatives, Senators, and Governors to choose from in 2016, from Jeb Bush to Rand Paul. Basically the entire spectrum.

Trump isn't an accident, or benefactor of circumstance, or anything else. He's the best standard-bearer for the GOP voter, and it's not close.
I disagree. Trumpism is a reaction to neoliberalism, which both parties have supported.

Remember when the common consensus was there is no difference in R and D?

Trump kind of threw a wrench in the neoliberal machine in that he brought so much instability, alienating china/Europe, kissing tyrants asses, and obvious personal grifting.

I think the true test will be 'when' Biden brings back the Obama agenda and a smarter, meaner trumpist arises to inspire the disenfranchised dying middle American. As COVID economic realities magnify their numbers and anger.
 
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ElOgro

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I disagree. Trumpism is a reaction to neoliberalism, which both parties have supported.

Remember when the common consensus was there is no difference in R and D?

Trump kind of threw a wrench in the neoliberal machine in that he brought so much instability, alienating china/Europe, kissing tyrants asses, and obvious personal grifting.

I think the true test will be 'when' Biden brings back the Obama agenda and a smarter, meaner trumpist arises to inspire the disenfranchised dying middle American. As COVID economic realities magnify their numbers and anger.
I agree. You is more articulate den me.