Electric vehicle fuel

StuAzole

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California's 2 largest electric companies, Southern California Edison (15 million customers) and PG&E (5 million customers) get exactly zero energy from coal.

California has the most EVs in the country.
But grossfad has a meme!
 

laidback

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California's 2 largest electric companies, Southern California Edison (15 million customers) and PG&E (5 million customers) get exactly zero energy from coal.

California has the most EVs in the country.
well the newsome's and the energy boys better figure out how we're going to charge the most EV's in the country
 

npsp

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California's 2 largest electric companies, Southern California Edison (15 million customers) and PG&E (5 million customers) get exactly zero energy from coal.

California has the most EVs in the country.
California should get zero electricity from coal. We have abundant nat. gas, solar and wind resources to be electricity independent. Due to drought, hydro is a crapshoot....
Unfortunately, the State is hell bent on phasing out nat. gas and we're not even close to being able exist on wind and solar alone. This doesn't begin to address the antiquated state of the State's transmission infrastructure. The State has the $$$$ to address this but it doesn't. Why?
 
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npsp

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Again, not the same, burning diesel on board to power electric motor and getting power from multiple energy sources to power a truly electric train.

Efficiency and oil consumption is not even in the same ballpark. it's a disengenius argument to equate the two.

40% of all energy in the US comes from renewables/nuclear, so even if you assume that they consume equal amount of energy (they don't), electric trains are still cleaner and more efficient.

apples =\= oranges
You need to have available electricity of sufficient capacity to power the 1,000s of horsepower required to haul freight across the country. That's the reason I wrote the sentence below:
"Because of the vastness of the US there are huge portions of our country with no power lines or other sources of electricity of sufficient capacity to power freight locomotives so they have to bring their source of electricity with them."

California can barely keep the lights on on a hot day. How do you expect the State to provide power to haul heavy freight?
 

plasticbertrand

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California's 2 largest electric companies, Southern California Edison (15 million customers) and PG&E (5 million customers) get exactly zero energy from coal.

California has the most EVs in the country.
Yes but that makes for a terrible meme.
 
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Ifallalot

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California should get zero electricity from coal. We have abundant nat. gas, solar and wind resources to be electricity independent. Due to drought, hydro is a crapshoot....
Unfortunately, the State is hell bent on phasing out nat. gas and we're not even close to being able exist on wind and solar alone. This doesn't begin to address the antiquated state of the State's transmission infrastructure. The State has the $$$$ to address this but it doesn't. Why?
 

plasticbertrand

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You need to have available electricity of sufficient capacity to power the 1,000s of horsepower required to haul freight across the country. That's the reason I wrote the sentence below:
"Because of the vastness of the US there are huge portions of our country with no power lines or other sources of electricity of sufficient capacity to power freight locomotives so they have to bring their source of electricity with them."

California can barely keep the lights on on a hot day. How do you expect the State to provide power to haul heavy freight?
There's so much energy waste going on in the US, it's not even funny.

So maybe instead of thinking that we should stop aiming for the EV future, think about ways to cut wasting energy?

It's a ridiculous argument to say that we don't have enough electricity to charge EVs.
It's not like everybody will drive EVs overnight and gas cars will disappear.
 
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npsp

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There's so much energy waste going on in the US, it's not even funny.

So maybe instead of thinking that we should stop aiming for the EV future, think about ways to cut wasting energy?

It's a ridiculous argument to say that we don't have enough electricity to charge EVs.
It's not like everybody will drive EVs overnight and gas cars will disappear.
I totally agree. Massive waste and inefficiencies. It truly is ridiculous. Think of how much food waste gets buried in land fills every day. Tons and tons everyday. All of that waste could be diverted to digesters to produce Renewable Natural Gas. Instead, we continue to bury it and let it produce and release methane (one of the very worst GHGs) into the atmosphere.... Unfortunately, Gov. Newsom want to ban the use of any and all nat. gas. WTF.

We have the resources to have all the electricity that we want. The hurdles are the generation and transmission of that energy. Do you remember the hassle SDG&E (Sempra Energy) went through to build the Sunrise Power Link (i.e. new infrastructure) to bring wind and solar power generated in the desert west over the mountains to the coast? Years of permitting and lawsuits by "environmentalists" before ground breaking.

Our transmission infrastructure is archaic and failing. The CPUC is in bed with the Governor and the Utility/Shareholders. The CPUC does not act in the best interest of the rate payer. They are beholden to the Governor and the Utility/Shareholders. Gotta keep cashing those dividend checks. If the CPUC had any balls, they would forbid investor owned utilities from distributing dividends until all production and distribution infrastructure has been upgraded to meet the current and near future needs and standards (Don't get me started on the approval of hike rates to cover the fire damages caused by outdated and poorly maintained infrastructure).

It is time for a paradigm shift in how gas and electricity is generated, sold and distributed. Not sure what the answer is but we need some form of public/private/partnership arrangement to revamp the entire system.
 
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npsp

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Now that ENRON is dead (and taking Authur Andersen with them as well wounding a good many Joe and Jane stock-holders), the brown/black-outs seem to be more related to winter storms in my neck of woods.
In spite of everything, we Californians for the most part are good at conserving and doing what's asked of us to keep on keeping on. When the States asks us to cut back watering our lawns, flushing pee, etc... to conserve water, we do it. Now the power companies have asked us to conserve power from 4-9PM, we do it.
 

hammies

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Today on NPR they had some oil company execs ssaying how they would have been doing more drilling and refining all during Covid and the Ukraine war but they just can't hire the help. I felt so sorry for them, being forced to pocket all those profits during these difficult, recessionary times.
 
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plasticbertrand

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In spite of everything, we Californians for the most part are good at conserving and doing what's asked of us to keep on keeping on. When the States asks us to cut back watering our lawns, flushing pee, etc... to conserve water, we do it. Now the power companies have asked us to conserve power from 4-9PM, we do it.
Not Nevada or Arizona. Those rebels DGAF

110ºF

1659408367333.png
 

StuAzole

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You need to have available electricity of sufficient capacity to power the 1,000s of horsepower required to haul freight across the country. That's the reason I wrote the sentence below:
"Because of the vastness of the US there are huge portions of our country with no power lines or other sources of electricity of sufficient capacity to power freight locomotives so they have to bring their source of electricity with them."

California can barely keep the lights on on a hot day. How do you expect the State to provide power to haul heavy freight?
Do you think that they're not working towards improving the grid between now and 2035?

As far as I can remember, it's been at least 2 years since the last rolling blackouts in SD. And that was one or two days during peak hours. Most cars charge at night. It's about load, not capacity.
And showerheads that would blast Kramer out of the head. :bricks:
There's a lot of water,; it just has to be treated...
has to be stored better first.
 
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npsp

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Do you think that they're not working towards improving the grid between now and 2035?

As far as I can remember, it's been at least 2 years since the last rolling blackouts in SD. And that was one or two days during peak hours. Most cars charge at night. It's about load, not capacity.


has to be stored better first.
Do a search and post a list of major power grid infrastructure projects currently in construction. Then do a search for the ones currently in design/permitting. Permitting alone can take years.
These two Cal Matters articles sum up the current situation pretty well:



How do you store water that is no longer falling from the sky. You can build dams and reservoirs all day long but if there is no rain and/or snow to fill them what good are they.....
Water resource development and management is a tricky business.
 
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