eFoil Pricing = Ridiculous

[92122]

Who is supporting this madness!? 12 Grand for this thing, and look at the total amount of material / tech / engineering it includes. So basic. You could get a 450cc Motocross bike for that price that contains 100x the materials / tech / engineering.

Flite AIR | Fliteboard™ Official Store – Fliteboard™ USA

Flite AIR is a light and durable eFoil board. Its rigid inflatable construction makes it easy to launch, transport and store. Shop the official Fliteboard™ store.

fliteboard.com

 

[Muscles]

I've seen forums where people make them with Chinese aliexpress foils. They're not very complicated. I can't believe people actually buy them for $10K plus but I keep seeing them everywhere.

 

[Hdip]

I've seen forums where people make them with Chinese aliexpress foils. They're not very complicated. I can't believe people actually buy them for $10K plus but I keep seeing them everywhere.

Foil.zone All the info you need to build one.

 

[GromsDad]

Good. Keep the cost in the stratosphere.

 

[sizzld1]

It is nuts. Lately there has been a pack of them messing around between Sunset and Chart House in LA.

I've seen forums where people make them with Chinese aliexpress foils. They're not very complicated. I can't believe people actually buy them for $10K plus but I keep seeing them everywhere.

That's what trips me out. Lately there's been a pack of them (maybe two separate packs of them) tooling around between Chart House and Will Rogers in LA. Like 4-6 of them at a time cruising around in circles messing with each other. Looks like fun, but the cost for that kinda crew insane.

 

[Hdip]

It is nuts. Lately there has been a pack of them messing around between Sunset and Chart House in LA.


That's what trips me out. Lately there's been a pack of them (maybe two separate packs of them) tooling around between Chart House and Will Rogers in LA. Like 4-6 of them at a time cruising around in circles messing with each other. Looks like fun, but the cost for that kinda crew insane.

One of those guys is a designer of efoils.

 

[sizzld1]

Makes sense

 

[juandesooka]

Yes it is. And I remain embarrassed and guilty for succumbing to the temptation and buying a Lift3. But with daily sessions and finally getting it into some surf, less so every day ... it is a really fun addition to the toybox, it will open up self tow-in possibilities that would otherwise stay dream land only.

I had intended to DIY one, but turning 54 I had an attack of feeling the clock ticking, decided I didn't want to wait a year to figure it out, then another year or two of futzing with break downs and gear I can't fully trust. Carpe diem. I still intend to DIY one, then sell my Lift, or best case, if I can entice my wife onto it, his n hers adventure toys.

DIY potential for savings depends in part on your skills and what you already have on hand.

• If you already have a foil set up, then you save $2500ish off the top.
• If you already have a board you can modify, then that saves you another $2000. Or if you can build a board, that's $500-800 in materials cost.
• The hardware costs roughly $1500: motor, ESC, water pump, antenna, remote
• A full size battery costs $4-5k. The cells, BMS, etc probably run $2k or so, that's just parts.
• Folding prop is $1300 (mandatory for wave riding!), there are now knock offs for $500, and there are files to 3d print one for free, if plastic will suffice.
• You can do without the fancy bags, there's $500 saved.

So that's how it adds up to $13k and how you can save 50% or more doing it DIY. You lose some of the savings if you have to buy tools: 3d printer, soldering, welder, shaping tool, etc, but you can charge that against your buddy when you build his/hers next.

In terms of comparisons, I tell people "it's motorcycle money". But maybe a better comparison is ebike. You can get a china knockoff ebike for $1000. Or you can get best in show for $10k+. Same deal here. The no-namer efoils are down to $4k....but I would feel pretty uncomfortable on that 1km offshore in the shipping lanes chasing wakes. It helps to think of this as a motorized vehicle, not a fancy surfboard -- and I've long ago learned the hard lessons about "getting what you pay for" when you buy cars or boats. Cheaping out vs making the painful investment upfront ends up costing you the same in the end ... just with so much more misery, heartbreak, and stress along the way.

My 2 cents, from foil addict world.

 

[Hdip]

The waydoo efoils were catching on fire in the beginning. Yes, I know lift efoils catch fire too. Most recently that one on Oahu. But it sure seemed like the early waydoo's for $4500 caught fire more than others.

 

[juandesooka]

The waydoo efoils were catching on fire in the beginning. Yes, I know lift efoils catch fire too. Most recently that one on Oahu. But it sure seemed like the early waydoo's for $4500 caught fire more than others.

For sure....lithium and water do not mix.

Lift's battery is bomber, in a really solid waterproof container. I am told customer service / warranty is exceptional for battery problems. Waydoo....not so much.

This is a problem for DIY, you are more or less producing a bomb, so "figuring it out as you go" could be catastrophic at the extreme. For my DIY plans, I intend to buy a prop (specs matter) and to engage an e-bike builder to make me a battery. I figure it'll be 60% the price of Lift, Flite, other top end batteries, and the extra $2k is worth it for both safety and dependability.

The rest of it is very DIY-able, if you know how to make boards, can solder, and can tinker with electronics settings.

 

[ghostshaper]

I think if you want to use your own board and foils, foildrive is the cheapest solution:

 

[juandesooka]

Our crew has built Faux Drive DIY versions. Our fearless leader had prior experience with RC gliders and got a 3d printer ... from there it was fairly simple process. Materials cost is roughly $500-800. The FD works decent for sup foil wave catching assistance. Some people are experimenting with prone, but it's not yet dialed in (where to put the big box for paddling, how to trigger a remote while paddling).

That doesn't work for sustained efoiling -- which is where FD Plus comes in, with bigger ESC (higher voltage), bigger battery (more ride time), and passive cooling (avoid overheat). Our leader has developed a prototype for a FauxDrivePlus, but not yet tested -- the big test will be if it does fast enough to self tow in to waves. The Lift goes 30mph and can go for 2 hour 30km trips, but that's not really my interest -- I don't need to go fast and I don't need to be more than 5-10mins from the break -- what i want is to catch more waves, then ride back out and catch more. So that requires a max speed roughly 15mph and 1 hour ride time....which allows for smaller motor, smaller prop, smaller battery. That means scaling down weight and expense from a full size efoil. So....we'll see! Those questions and the tinkering required to answer them, is why I threw down for an efoil now....I will DIY once we know what's optimal.

 

[ghostshaper]

Our crew has built Faux Drive DIY versions. Our fearless leader had prior experience with RC gliders and got a 3d printer ... from there it was fairly simple process. Materials cost is roughly $500-800. The FD works decent for sup foil wave catching assistance. Some people are experimenting with prone, but it's not yet dialed in (where to put the big box for paddling, how to trigger a remote while paddling).

That doesn't work for sustained efoiling -- which is where FD Plus comes in, with bigger ESC (higher voltage), bigger battery (more ride time), and passive cooling (avoid overheat). Our leader has developed a prototype for a FauxDrivePlus, but not yet tested -- the big test will be if it does fast enough to self tow in to waves. The Lift goes 30mph and can go for 2 hour 30km trips, but that's not really my interest -- I don't need to go fast and I don't need to be more than 5-10mins from the break -- what i want is to catch more waves, then ride back out and catch more. So that requires a max speed roughly 15mph and 1 hour ride time....which allows for smaller motor, smaller prop, smaller battery. That means scaling down weight and expense from a full size efoil. So....we'll see! Those questions and the tinkering required to answer them, is why I threw down for an efoil now....I will DIY once we know what's optimal.

I think we have similar interests in using an efoil. Please keep us updated on your progress. I just need some way to get myself out to the outer reef swells and into them when it's not breaking.
Edit: I don't care how to achieve this, wing or motor, but winging probably won't happen b/c we need more wind here.

I really don't want to throw down the cost of a full on efoil.

 

[juandesooka]

I think we have similar interests in using an efoil. Please keep us updated on your progress. I just need some way to get myself out to the outer reef swells and into them when it's not breaking.
Edit: I don't care how to achieve this, wing or motor, but winging probably won't happen b/c we need more wind here.

I really don't want to throw down the cost of a full on efoil.

Will keep you posted for sure. I have had my efoil a month now. Flat water got boring quick. Fast wakes are fun. Slow bigger wakes are really fun. My first experience in those outer reef style humps blew my mind. I have been frothing to tow in for a long while, came to realize the logistics are impossible, it's just never going to happen. Now I can do it on my own schedule and without help. The riding may only be half as good, but that's a million % better if the alternative is zero.

It is very similar to winging in waves/swells -- which is super rad and highly recommended -- but there are logistical constraints. It requires wind. You are limited where you can go by angles of wind. And the wing can be in the way when wind not quite right. Efoil offers more freedom to get where you need to be quickly, and to get out of there quickly too when needed. But it comes with cost of a 70lb board. Always tradeoffs.

FD was rad, but didn't really hit it for me, for the waves we have. We are swell starved, so when there's waves, we aim to surf foil first priority. Requires being away from people and we don't have enough spots. Waves have to be kinda almost breaking. So it just didn't get used enough. The efoil will open up spots that are otherwise not doable. I anticipate a winter of efoiling for an hour on the outside, when tide not quite right, then surf foiling after -- or vice versa.

I know what you mean about cost...it still makes me nauseous thinking about it. But I justified it as motorcycle money: lots of middle agers spending $20-30k or more on those, so this is an ocean equivalent. And it's less obnoxious than a waverunner. Think of it as an investment, not an expense. And all the other lame justifications I can think of. It's bought me at least 20 sessions on the water this summer, where I would have had no fun otherwise ... will be 100+ by year's end. Amortize it as $ per smile for when I'm too old to chase it any more, I figure it'll seem cheap.

PS Hey Lift, if you're reading this, I know a guy who you should sponsor to push product ;-)

 

[Hdip]

I think we have similar interests in using an efoil. Please keep us updated on your progress. I just need some way to get myself out to the outer reef swells and into them when it's not breaking.
Edit: I don't care how to achieve this, wing or motor, but winging probably won't happen b/c we need more wind here.

I really don't want to throw down the cost of a full on efoil.

SUP?

 

[ghostshaper]

SUP?

Can the average person get into an unbroken swell on sup?

 

[juandesooka]

Can the average person get into an unbroken swell on sup?

IMHO: no. And that's where the FoilDrive comes in ... eAssist, partway to an efoil, just enough to get in. Basically like a jetski tow-in, but solo.

Having experimented with this a little, I found the partway wasn't quite enough. I suspect FD Plus will be a bigger seller, as it goes a notch further, you can ride with extended power for a while if you want. This eases paddle out, but also helps you get where you need to be quicker for wave catching.

A negative of both FD and FDplus: you are on a SUP, which is bigger and more cumbersome, if prone surf foil is what you optimally want to be doing. EG the tow-in folks can be on wake/kite foilboards, 20L or less.

Right now, my DIY efoil dreams: partway between FD Plus and full efoil. Have enough juice to do 20mph and a 1 hour ride. So need only half the battery size and can have a smaller motor/esc. In surf sessions, keep close to home base and swap out batteries to extend time on water versus carrying all the extra weight.

 

[$kully]

I said the same thing about e-bikes +5yrs ago and now they’re everywhere.

 

[Autoprax]

I'm taking mine out tonight.

 

[ghostshaper]

@juandesooka did you ever get your boost fin to work on your sup foil?

I was thinking that 2 boost fins in the foil tracks synched to one controller might work to get up on an unbroken swell.