Durham gets the first Russiagate conviction – Ex-Justice Department lawyer Kevin Clinesmith

Surfdog

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Federal Sentencing
The United States Sentencing Guidelines

Typically, sentencing will take place ninety days after a guilty plea or guilty verdict.
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A guilty plea is the same as a guilty verdict/conviction, but without all the hassle of a trial and it's extensive procedures.

Again, a person does not get a sentencing hearing assigned until they've either been convicted guilty or plead guilty.

Both outcomes are the same in the eyes of the court.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction#:~:text=In law, a conviction is,, "not guilty").&text=After a defendant is convicted,appropriate sentence as a punishment.

"In law, a conviction is the verdict that usually results when a court of law finds a defendant guilty of a crime."

"After a defendant is convicted, the court determines the appropriate sentence as a punishment."

A verdict and a conviction are one in the same.
 
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Why_was_I_banned

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Federal Sentencing
The United States Sentencing Guidelines

Typically, sentencing will take place ninety days after a guilty plea or guilty verdict.
-----------------------------------

A guilty plea is the same as a guilty verdict/conviction, but without all the hassle of a trial and it's extensive procedures.

Again, a person does not get a sentencing hearing assigned until they've either been convicted guilty or plead guilty.

Both outcomes are the same in the eyes of the court.
----------------------------------
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction#:~:text=In law, a conviction is,, "not guilty").&text=After a defendant is convicted,appropriate sentence as a punishment.

"In law, a conviction is the verdict that usually results when a court of law finds a defendant guilty of a crime."

"After a defendant is convicted, the court determines the appropriate sentence as a punishment."

A verdict and a conviction are one in the same.
I'm having the best fun watching this thread.

But, just because the bad guy pleads guilty, the judge can still reject that plea.

Gotta lean with Afoaf on this
 

afoaf

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no one is arguing that sentencing comes next

what he continues to fail to prove is that the actual conviction has occurred

to date, a plea has been entered
 

Surfdog

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I'm having the best fun watching this thread.

But, just because the bad guy pleads guilty, the judge can still reject that plea.

Gotta lean with Afoaf on this
If that's what happened, I'd agree.

But it's already fact that the judge accepted (and well reported) his guilty plea on Aug. 19, and it's on record as such.

This is where a judge accepted guilty plea is the EXACT same as a guilty verdict/conviction.

Clinesmith has given up any and all rights to a trial and/or pleading not guilty.

He's done, in erBB speak and that was on Aug. 19.

It will be recorded as such when sentencing is completed.
 
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Why_was_I_banned

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If that's what happened, I'd agree.

But it's already fact that the judge accepted his guilty plea on Aug. 19, and it's on record as such.

This is where a judge accepted guilty plea is the EXACT same as a guilty verdict/conviction.

Clinesmith has given up any and all rights to a trial and/or pleading not guilty.

He's done, in erBB speak and that was on Aug. 19.

It will be recorded as such when sentencing is completed.
Could you post anything that is public record that says the judge accepted his plea? Not links to opinion articles?

And accepting the plea is more than entering it into the record.

Until you can post an acceptance of the plea, since that is public record, Afoaf wins.

The jury has spoken
 

Surfdog

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Could you post anything that is public record that says the judge accepted his plea? Not links to opinion articles?

And accepting the plea is more than entering it into the record.

Until you can post an acceptance of the plea, since that is public record, Afoaf wins.

The jury has spoken
Click on assorted guilty plea protocols (pdf's) signed by the judge and his attorneys in link below....

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/17445533/united-states-v-clinesmith/

Waiver of Indictment
Waiver of Trial by Jury
Plea Agreement

Check the dates signed (Aug. 14) and dates filed (Aug. 19).

All that's left is the sentencing hearing, Dec 10.
 
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Random Guy

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I wonder if people who plead guilty to a felon are allowed to vote if they haven’t been sentenced or had a judgement recorded yet
Either your a convicted felon, or your not. Seems pretty straightforward
 

afoaf

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Click on assorted guilty plea protocols (pdf's) signed by the judge and his attorneys in link below....

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/17445533/united-states-v-clinesmith/

Waiver of Indictment
Waiver of Trial by Jury
Plea Agreement

Check the dates signed (Aug. 14) and dates filed (Aug. 19).

All that's left is the sentencing hearing, Dec 10.

do you ever ask yourself why this case does not have a judgement of conviction filed
like other federal cases have that are documented on the court listener site?

I linked to one before. you can find more quite easily.

there is a dedicated entry in the list that says "judgement of conviction filed".

why do you disregard every procedural article that I have posted that explicitly states
that a conviction is defined by the act of a judge filing the judgement of conviction with
the courts once the case has been adjudicated?

you have not addressed or materially refuted either of these very clear and substantiated
points

you just keep pointing to the entry of a plea and saying "that's all, folks!" ... when it's pretty
clearly stated in the federal court system that a conviction is defined by the filing itself


I don't understand why you accepted a bet on "conviction" if you did not know what it
was or what constituted it....and then proceed to make a mountain of illogical arguments
to try to tease a conviction out of thin air.

do you want the $50 that bad? I can send it to you right now if that's the case.

send me your paypal/venmo - I deleted the previous PM

the bet was premised on Durham uncovering a conspiracy of anti-trump criminals in
the government....he's busting one guy who, independently and in an non-coordinated
manner, inserted three words in to a document which he believed were germane at
the time and which were not fundamental to the genesis or maintenance of the
investigation.

is Clinesmith the deep state conspiracy coup you keep chirping about?

lol

seriously though, I'll send you the money if you'll feel better, but I think that you lose
on merits and that's enough for me in the end.
 

Surfdog

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I don't care 2 cents about the money.

I just want to see what date the final conviction is filed as on final court docs filed.

If it says conviction was after Sept. 30, you win. If it says what I believe will be Aug. 19, then it seems I would win.

Every one of those samples you posted had separate guilty/conviction dates, and weeks or months later filing dates.

That should settle it.

I just think the soul of the bet was a "conviction" decision date, guilty by trial, guilty plea (or acquittal) which was Aug. 19. Plea of guilt is same as judged guilt verdict/conviction.

If somehow the conviction changes to not guilty or acquittal then you'd obviously win.
Otherwise, final judgement has been made, and I don't see it changing.

Like I've said many time here, you CAN NOT get a sentencing hearing until you been convicted (or plead guilty) of a crime.

Period.

YOU were the one that wanted it changed from indictment to "conviction". You never said "judgement OF conviction" which is done at sentencing, which take MONTHS after the guilty verdict/conviction is achieved.

If it was made clear you wanted a "judgement of conviction" which is given at the sentencing date, I probably would've extended the time frame months further. My misunderstanding if that was your original intent.
 

Why_was_I_banned

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Click on assorted guilty plea protocols (pdf's) signed by the judge and his attorneys in link below....

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/17445533/united-states-v-clinesmith/

Waiver of Indictment
Waiver of Trial by Jury
Plea Agreement

Check the dates signed (Aug. 14) and dates filed (Aug. 19).

All that's left is the sentencing hearing, Dec 4.
Yea, I don't see conviction anywhere in there. Just say sorry and pay up. If the prize,was a b.j. then we dont need the details.
 

afoaf

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If it was made clear you wanted a "judgement of conviction" which is given at the sentencing date, I probably would've extended the time frame months further. My misunderstanding if that was your original intent.
a judgement of conviction is what signifies a conviction

I don't know how much more clear I can be about that

how the fk is this up for discussion?

send me your paypal/venmo/zelle and I'll send you the money
 

Surfdog

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a judgement of conviction is what signifies a conviction

I don't know how much more clear I can be about that

how the fk is this up for discussion?

send me your paypal/venmo/zelle and I'll send you the money
At this point, I don't want your money.

We can call it a draw based on technicalities and semantics.
 

Surfdog

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When the final docs are posted, we'll see when the guilty verdict/conviction date was.

If his judge accepted and signed off guilt verdict/conviction and is after Sept. 30, you win.

All that's really left is sentencing and formality clerk paperwork.
 

afoaf

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Also, still waiting for someone to explain how one gets a sentencing hearing WITHOUT a guilty verdict/conviction?
it's been explained. repeatedly.

now do you want to wait until the next hearing or are you going to keep chirping?