Durham gets the first Russiagate conviction – Ex-Justice Department lawyer Kevin Clinesmith

afoaf

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Jun 25, 2008
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I didn't know you were Hollywood.
I'm not, but I have a friend who lives there with air conditioning, pool/jacuzzi, and tennis court

I told her that hanging out at her place feels like going to the spa
 

Surfdog

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Apr 22, 2001
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I'm not, but I have a friend who lives there with air conditioning, pool/jacuzzi, and tennis court

I told her that hanging out at her place feels like going to the spa
We all know you work for and/or with "the industry".

You've made that clear many times here.
 

afoaf

Duke status
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what a fkn clown...

please focus up and get your homework done, surfdodge
 

Surfdog

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Apr 22, 2001
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The arraignment presents your first opportunity to enter a “plea” in the case. Whether or not you choose to do so — or attempt to continue the case — will depend on your individual circumstances. If you enter a plea, it will either be:

> guilty (in which case, you will proceed to a sentencing hearing, and all further stages of the criminal court process will be limited to POST-CONVICTION issues),
  • > nolo contendere (or “no contest”) which is essentially a guilty plea (the difference being that a “no contest” plea can’t be used as evidence against you in the event that there is also a civil case that arises from the incident), or

  • > not guilty (in which case you will proceed to the pretrial or preliminary hearing phase of the California criminal court process).
Although most defendants who are represented by attorneys do not plead guilty or no contest during the arraignment phase, sometimes it is strategically advisable to do so. This may be the case, for example, in order to avoid further prosecution for more serious, uncharged offenses.
-------------------------
A sentencing hearing is a court proceeding in which a judge imposes penalties upon a defendant who has been convicted of a crime. The hearing takes place after the defendant has pled guilty or no contest, or has been found guilty at a jury trial or bench trial. Both the prosecutor and the defense may present evidence and arguments relevant to the issue of sentencing.
-------------------------

https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/process/arraignment/

https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/process/sentencing/

All procedures of judge accepting the guilty plea have been performed. Only sentencing awaits.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/17445533/united-states-v-clinesmith/

Again, a sentencing hearing is ONLY provided AFTER a guilty plea or conviction.

You can't have a sentencing hearing before conviction. Doesn't happen, ever.

I still have not heard an decent answer on how someone can have a sentencing hearing assigned without a judge accepted/approved guilty plea or conviction?
 

afoaf

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Jun 25, 2008
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your reading comprehension is embarrassingly bad

still no judgement of conviction filed by the judge == no conviction

congrats on the continued self-owning!
 

afoaf

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hint: you can look at cases that have completed and you'll find a "judgment filed"
with a link to view/download the filed judgement.

clinesmith has no such judgments listed in his case overview

thank you for posting the courtlistener.com links. it helps to substantiate my claim
that there is no judgement filed yet in this case.
 

Surfdog

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Apr 22, 2001
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Again, the bet was on conviction.

"Judgement" is a later final process, sometimes much later, depending on sentence hearing.

If you wanted to bet on "judgement", then that's what it should've been on.

Judgement is not the same as a conviction, it's always the last function of the sentencing, in most cases.

"If you've been convicted at trial or you've taken a plea agreement in a felony criminal case then the last hearing that will conclude your case is called a Judgment and Sentencing Hearing."

https://www.hamplaw.com/judgment-and-sentencing#:~:text=If you've been convicted,a Judgment and Sentencing Hearing.&text=If a defendant goes to,is the determination of guilt.

Conviction
A guilty plea results in conviction. By pleading guilty, the defendant admits to all elements of the crimes to which he is pleading. Likewise, the defendant admits that all material facts alleged in the charges are true. Therefore, a guilty plea serves as an adjudication on the merits of a case.
 
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sirfun

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Apr 26, 2008
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Again, the bet was on conviction.

"Judgement" is a later final process, sometimes much later, depending on sentence hearing.

If you wanted to bet on "judgement", then that's what it should've been on.

Judgement is not the same as a conviction, it's always the last function of the sentencing, in most cases.

"If you've been convicted at trial or you've taken a plea agreement in a felony criminal case then the last hearing that will conclude your case is called a Judgment and Sentencing Hearing."

https://www.hamplaw.com/judgment-and-sentencing#:~:text=If you've been convicted,a Judgment and Sentencing Hearing.&text=If a defendant goes to,is the determination of guilt.
was an associate of Rudy's "CONVICTED" today ?? ) :)

A defendant in the federal case against associates of Rudy Giuliani pleaded guilty Thursday to making a false statement to the Federal Election Commission and defrauding investors in a fund.

 

Surfdog

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Apr 22, 2001
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If he plead guilty, and judge formally accepted his plea, he is convicted. Not sure if judge has formally accepted his plea?

Edit: Looks like the judge accepted his guilty plea, and sentencing is all that's left.

3 others in the case have plead not guilty and are going to trial. So, this case if far from over.
 
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afoaf

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Surfdog still trying to use really bad logic to substantiate something that his
own evidence indicates has not happened.

"conviction" is a technical term. it results from a judgment of conviction being
entered by the judge overseeing the proceedings.

NO JUDGMENT HAS BEEN ENTERED IN THIS CASE

you can keep flapping your lips, posting stupid copy/pastas and trying to use some
retarded process of elimination to logically infer that it has happened, but it has not.

there is no judgement filed in the case as of yet...a judgement you can see filed with
other adjudicated cases.

this would be hilarious if it wasn't getting so fkn pathetic. zero integrity.

why did you bet if you didn't even know what the terms of the bet were or meant?!

that's just stupid...
 
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afoaf

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Cornell Law article on Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure:


(k) Judgment.

(1) In General. In the judgment of conviction, the court must set forth the plea, the jury verdict or the court's findings, the adjudication, and the sentence. If the defendant is found not guilty or is otherwise entitled to be discharged, the court must so order. The judge must sign the judgment, and the clerk must enter it.
As mentioned, there is no Judgement of Conviction filed for this case as evidenced by your own link, Surfdog.
 

Surfdog

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Apr 22, 2001
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Where in the bet does it say anything about "judgement"?

YOU specifically used the term "conviction" in the bet. So it must have substance, right?

Judgement is the very final stage in sentencing. It can take weeks or months after the initial guilty plea/conviction hearing.
 

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
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Cornell Law article on Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure:




As mentioned, there is no Judgement of Conviction filed for this case as evidenced by your own link, Surfdog.
Again, Judgement is the final stage of Conviction.

I also checked that sites exact page.

You can't have a Judgement, without a Conviction first.
Sentencing was also NOT part of the bet.

We're talking semantics circles at this point.

You KNOW his guilty plea was accepted by the judge on Aug 19.
All that was left from there was clean-up and housekeeping and nothing was going to change it.
 

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
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as stated repeatedly and is EASILY verifiable...the legally defined "conviction" is attained
when the judge presiding over a case files a judgment of conviction.

to further substantiate that the Judgment of Conviction is an actual animal, please refer
to the CA State Bar rules as it relates to disciplinary action:


(first paragraph)


you can also see in this habeas corpus petition for the US court system that the date of
conviction and the date of sentencing can have two separate dates associated with
them.


here's some examples of Judgment of Conviction...actual filings and court forms



YOU GET YOUR MONEY FIVE MINUTES AFTER YOU POST
THE FILING FOR THE JUDGMENT OF CONVICTION FOR THE
CLINESMITH CASE. SINCE THERE IS NONE, I SHOULD BE
PAID ACCORDINGLY
 

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
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Where in the bet does it say anything about "judgement"?

YOU specifically used the term "conviction" in the bet. So it must have substance, right?

Judgement is the very final stage in sentencing. It can take weeks or months after the initial guilty plea/conviction hearing.

#zerointegrity #dumberthanIthought

you're trying to classify the entrance of a plea as a conviction

that's fkn UNSANE and not in line with the legal code at all

the fact that the premise of your argument has changed three times in this thread tells
me everything I need to know about you and your integrity

I do not have a history of welching on bets. I paid instantly last time. you're being dishonorable.
 

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
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Oceanside,CA
Guilty plea is exact same thing as a conviction. I've already posted legal proof of this term.

Every one of your "samples" show a date of conviction, and the date of clerk filing or "judgement OF conviction".

Each one shows the date of conviction at least a month or 2 prior to the filed judgement.

During CV-19 now, and/or federal court cases, it can take 3-4 months to get to judgement/sentencing.

We will have to wait until the clerks file this case to see if Aug. 19 was the conviction date, or not.

If conviction date shows it was NOT Aug. 19 in filing, you win the bet.
 
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afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
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Guilty plea is exact same thing as a conviction. I've already posted legal proof of this term.
not it isn't. no you haven't.

a conviction is attained when the judge files the judgment of conviction. it's procedural.

you're trying to infer it based on order of operations. I'm saying it's a waypoint in a trial
that comes with formal actions/filings.

it's easily verifiable.

I don't know why you think you can masquerade around here as a lawyer

it's laughable.
 
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